Question for MMA Guys

I’m glad I could offer something interesting for you Otoko. Kyokushin Kai and Isshin ryu have a long history together here in the US.

In 1962 Kyokushin Kai, O’sensei Mas Oyama, held the first North American full contact karate championship. At this tournament Team Isshinryu led by Gary Alexander defeated all comers.

Gary Alexander was one of the dominant fighters in the US karate scene for many years.

In 1990 at Mas Oyama’s Sabaki challenge an Isshinryu stylist was runner up in thh middle weight division.

Isshinryu O’sensei Tatsuo Shimabuku was the top student of the three greatest Okinawan masters of the early 20th century. Kempo founder Choki Motubu. Goju ryu founder Chojun Miyagi.
Shobayashi Shorin ryu founder Chotuku Kyan.

If Master Shimabuku hadn’t founded Isshinryu he would have become the shobayashi grandmaster when Kyan died. Instead his younger brother (and student) Eizo Shimabuku became grandmaster. In 1959 at the kodokan in Japan, Kanken Toyama promoted Eizo Shimabuku to 10th Dan. At the age of 34, Shimabukuro was the youngest person ever to receive such an honor.

The most famous fighter to come out of Eizo Shimabuku’s dojo was Joe Lewis.

Here is a short list of some important points that set Isshinryu apart from all other Karate.

  1. We don’t use the corkscrew punch, we use a near verticle fist that is more akin to wingchun kung fu.
  2. Shortened stances, we don’t use the deep wide stances that you see all the other karate’s using. This gives us better mobility.
  3. Double bone blocking, which is twice as strong as single bone blocking.
  4. Snap technique, we don’t extend our kicks or punches till they lock out like the other styles do. This reduces our vulnerability to joint locking and allows quick follow up.

There are others, but those are 4 of the big ones. A lot of karate styles differ only in their name. Isshinryu is actually doing some things differently. The things we do different, we feel make Isshinryu an advancement of Karate.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I remember I made fun of you for being an MMA tough guy and you claimed you didn’t do MMA but then you subsequently posted that you did BJJ.[/quote]

BJJ is not MMA. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

I just heard an apropos quote: “Marines run to - not away from - the sound of gunfire.” Same thing with fighters: They run towards the violence.

If you’re sitting on a computer parading the horribles that will happen if you get hit in the face, you don’t have the warrior spirit. You either “get” this, or you don’t.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I remember I made fun of you for being an MMA tough guy and you claimed you didn’t do MMA but then you subsequently posted that you did BJJ.

BJJ is not MMA. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

I just heard an apropos quote: “Marines run to - not away from - the sound of gunfire.” Same thing with fighters: They run towards the violence.

If you’re sitting on a computer parading the horribles that will happen if you get hit in the face, you don’t have the warrior spirit. You either “get” this, or you don’t.[/quote]

OP claims to have gone through PJ training. If that’s true, then he’s roughed out some of the toughest training the US military has to offer, in order to do a day job that involves risking his health and potentially his life to drag other people’s asses out of danger.

Obviously, a sissified job that doesn’t require any “warrior spirit”. Doing BJJ as a hobby makes you so much more hardcore and gets you so much more respect than saving lives under fire.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I’m glad I could offer something interesting for you Otoko. Kyokushin Kai and Isshin ryu have a long history together here in the US.

In 1962 Kyokushin Kai, O’sensei Mas Oyama, held the first North American full contact karate championship. At this tournament Team Isshinryu led by Gary Alexander defeated all comers.

Gary Alexander was one of the dominant fighters in the US karate scene for many years.

In 1990 at Mas Oyama’s Sabaki challenge an Isshinryu stylist was runner up in thh middle weight division.

Isshinryu O’sensei Tatsuo Shimabuku was the top student of the three greatest Okinawan masters of the early 20th century. Kempo founder Choki Motubu. Goju ryu founder Chojun Miyagi.
Shobayashi Shorin ryu founder Chotuku Kyan.

If Master Shimabuku hadn’t founded Isshinryu he would have become the shobayashi grandmaster when Kyan died. Instead his younger brother (and student) Eizo Shimabuku became grandmaster. In 1959 at the kodokan in Japan, Kanken Toyama promoted Eizo Shimabuku to 10th Dan. At the age of 34, Shimabukuro was the youngest person ever to receive such an honor.

The most famous fighter to come out of Eizo Shimabuku’s dojo was Joe Lewis.

Here is a short list of some important points that set Isshinryu apart from all other Karate.

  1. We don’t use the corkscrew punch, we use a near verticle fist that is more akin to wingchun kung fu.
  2. Shortened stances, we don’t use the deep wide stances that you see all the other karate’s using. This gives us better mobility.
  3. Double bone blocking, which is twice as strong as single bone blocking.
  4. Snap technique, we don’t extend our kicks or punches till they lock out like the other styles do. This reduces our vulnerability to joint locking and allows quick follow up.

There are others, but those are 4 of the big ones. A lot of karate styles differ only in their name. Isshinryu is actually doing some things differently. The things we do different, we feel make Isshinryu an advancement of Karate.[/quote]

That is interesting. I know that the Sabaki Challenge is run by Ninomiya now. He left Kyokushin after Mas Oyama died. Shidokan, Enshin, Daidojuku, Seidokaikn are all offshoots of Kyokushin.
Kyokushin first made news in Japan for sending a team to Thailand to face a team of Muay Thai champs in the early sixties. They won and became famous. Kyokushin even was mde into a comic book(manga), Karate Baka Ichi Dai. They then held their first World Tournament. From then on they evolved into what people see today, full contact, bareknuckle karate. It is a sport so there are rules. And is not meant to be taken as "self defense"any more than Muay Thai is self defense or kickboxing is self defense. Since K-1 came on the scene in 1993 which itself came from a Karate background(Karate World Cup), many Kyokushin or former Kyokushin stylists have made a name for themselves.
Then there is Daido-juku Karate which you might find interesting because they feel that they are advancing karate. Here is a clip:

I spent summers as a kid in Japan doing Judo and Daidojuku Karate.

I took a look at the video. I’m not trying to be a jerk but it’s kind of hard to tell much just from watching people free fight.

Knees and elbows are good in close techniques that are great for the street and having mats to practice takedowns in free fighting is good. Obviously you guys aren’t afraid to get smacked around which is a good thing.

I went to the official website and did a google search and found there is an instructional video which shows basic upper body techniques and kicks, it also included a kata. But there isn’t really enough to tell other than it is essentially kyokushin kai with grappling elements included and some other assorted bits and pieces.

One thing to understand about the free fighting is this. Thanks to the advent of karate tournaments in the middle of the 20th century the various styles had the opportunity to come up against each other, and there has really been an exchange of ideas, so that over the last 50 years free fighting has evolved in a similar direction.

A huge influence on this evolution has been Isshinryu. A lot of styles are using our principles now in their free fighting. But if you go into the dojo’s of other styles their basics and kata’s look nothing like how they are free fighting.

Isshinryu basics and kata’s look very much like our free fighting. For example we don’t corkscrew our punches and we don’t lock out our elbows when we punch, in basics or free fighting.

Go into a Shotokan class and watch basics and you will see everyone in deep stances throwing corkscrew punches with locked out elbows. But watch them free fight and they will be using shorter stances and throwing vertical snap punches that don’t lock out just like the Isshinryu people.

But if you had gone into a Shotokan dojo fifty years ago you would have seen the free fighting that looked very different from what you see today. You would have seen deep stances and locked out punches and kicks.

So that is why it is hard to tell much from looking at free fighting. Because we are all reading from the same page, a page that was mostly written by Isshinryu.

If would be interested to know what kata are you guys are using. Isshinryu’s nickname is “the masters style” because of our kata. There is only one true Isshinryu kata Sunsu, which traditionally was only taught to black belts, the seven other hand katas come from Shorin ryu or Gojuryu.

Those non Isshinryu kata are all blackbelt level kata’s in their original styles hence our nickname. So that is another advancement we have, we don’t waste time with pinan’s. Our white belts start with Seisan which is a black belt kata from Shorin ryu.

Unfortunately the teaching of Seisan to white belts costs us more students than the groin kicks. We don’t always throw you to the wolves with the free fighting but we do with the kata.

Here is another interesting bit of history. Back in the 1920’s when the Japanese first asked the Okinawans to send them a karate master to demonstrate karate to them the unanimous first choice was their toughest fighter Choki Motobu.

The Okinawans were all set to send Motobu, till some sensible soul pointed out that Motobu was a barbarian who loved to fight, ate with his hands, was an Okinawan nationalist who fiercely hated the Japanese, who had taken on and defeated entire groups of people and that if he behaved in Japan the way he behaved in Okinawa the Japanese would have to bring in troops to shoot him.

So instead they chose to send a man who was a teacher of Japanese ettiquete who had impeccable manners and was the perfect example of a polite Japanese gentleman, Gichin Funakoshi. When Funakoshi had written a book on Japanese customs he had used the pen name Shotokan.

Here is good look at a healthy O’sensei Shimabuku at his dojo in Okinawa doing Kusanku kata. O’sensei was known for his front snap kicks and you can see it here. You also get to see his rapid fire snap punching Tatsuo Simabuku Kushanku Isshin ryu founder - YouTube

Here is a video of O’sensei Shimabuku demonstrating seisan kata. I would like to point out that at the time of filming he had a cold and had to do 14 more kata afterwards so he wasn’t trying to impress anyone, this was meant for educational purposes only.

Here is a more traditional version of seisan. Othsuka Seisan kata - YouTube

Here Shimabuku does chinto Chinto Kata - Isshinryu Karate & Kobudo - YouTube

Here is a traditional version of Chinto

Here is an Isshin ryu fighting demo from a fairly new school in the Netherlands. - YouTube

Here is Albert Mady who is from across the Detroit river in Canada. Master Mady is the same height as me but thicker. He spent many years working as a bouncer in a biker bar. You could always pick out his full contact fighters when they showed up at our tournament, because they would be carrying their gear in the same gym bags that they us for their hockey gear. So here is a tip. If you are at a full contact tournament and you see Canadians show up with hockey bags run like hell.

Here is a mere yellow belt doing seisan. Sadly he is showing a better technical knowledge of Isshinryu than all the Isshinryu black belts who have videos posted. I think the explanation for this is Isshinryu is the only system he has studied. Whereas the others have studied other styles which they don’t want to give up so they have bastardized their Isshinryu instead. There has been a lot of that unfortunately(we’ve been a system since 1954), and it is something to be aware of when looking at Isshinryu stylists, because you might not be seeing the real deal.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
At this tournament Team Isshinryu led by Gary Alexander defeated all comers.

Gary Alexander was one of the dominant fighters in the US karate scene for many years.
[/quote]

I just saw Gary at the mall this weekend. I trained with him when I was a kid.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I remember I made fun of you for being an MMA tough guy and you claimed you didn’t do MMA but then you subsequently posted that you did BJJ.

BJJ is not MMA. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?
[/quote]

Why are you commenting about getting hit in the face on this thread? Does BJJ include stand up and punching in the face?

[quote]
I just heard an apropos quote: “Marines run to - not away from - the sound of gunfire.” Same thing with fighters: They run towards the violence.

If you’re sitting on a computer parading the horribles that will happen if you get hit in the face, you don’t have the warrior spirit. You either “get” this, or you don’t.[/quote]

This is a guy that went through PJ training. Assuming he is telling the truth about that, and it he doesn’t look like a troll, He is far more a warrior than you or I will ever be.

Anyone that risks his life to save others in combat or other deplorable situations has warrior spirit.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
True, it is the pits.

Then be honest with the OP. The OP obviously does not have what it takes to be a fighter. There is nothing wrong with that.

If a guy posts, “I might start deadlifting, but won’t that hurt my hands,” what would you say? Someone posting that he is afraid of getting hit in the head is not fighter material. You should be able to see that.

In the name of being “nice,” too many people on this board tell lies. Be real with the OP: He sounds like a first-rate sissy. He does not belong in an MMA gym. [/quote]

No way man. Someone is a bit scared so you call him a sissy and tell him not to train? Man, i was fucking scared the first time i ever sparred. I ain’t a pro nor will i ever be a pro but facing something you are afraid of is something everyone should be doing imo. Maybe he will get the fuck kicked out of. So what? At least he went in there and FOUND OUT. If he has a good attitude and sticks at it he’ll toughen up. How can that be a bad thing?

Sometimes people need a bit of encouragement. Yes it should be constructive and realistic but not out and out negative.

He said he wants to try MMA, and there is nothing in his origianl post that suggests he cannot give it a try.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I took a look at the video. I’m not trying to be a jerk but it’s kind of hard to tell much just from watching people free fight.

Knees and elbows are good in close techniques that are great for the street and having mats to practice takedowns in free fighting is good. Obviously you guys aren’t afraid to get smacked around which is a good thing.

I went to the official website and did a google search and found there is an instructional video which shows basic upper body techniques and kicks, it also included a kata. But there isn’t really enough to tell other than it is essentially kyokushin kai with grappling elements included and some other assorted bits and pieces.

One thing to understand about the free fighting is this. Thanks to the advent of karate tournaments in the middle of the 20th century the various styles had the opportunity to come up against each other, and there has really been an exchange of ideas, so that over the last 50 years free fighting has evolved in a similar direction.

A huge influence on this evolution has been Isshinryu. A lot of styles are using our principles now in their free fighting. But if you go into the dojo’s of other styles their basics and kata’s look nothing like how they are free fighting.

Isshinryu basics and kata’s look very much like our free fighting. For example we don’t corkscrew our punches and we don’t lock out our elbows when we punch, in basics or free fighting.

Go into a Shotokan class and watch basics and you will see everyone in deep stances throwing corkscrew punches with locked out elbows. But watch them free fight and they will be using shorter stances and throwing vertical snap punches that don’t lock out just like the Isshinryu people.

But if you had gone into a Shotokan dojo fifty years ago you would have seen the free fighting that looked very different from what you see today. You would have seen deep stances and locked out punches and kicks.

So that is why it is hard to tell much from looking at free fighting. Because we are all reading from the same page, a page that was mostly written by Isshinryu.

If would be interested to know what kata are you guys are using. Isshinryu’s nickname is “the masters style” because of our kata. There is only one true Isshinryu kata Sunsu, which traditionally was only taught to black belts, the seven other hand katas come from Shorin ryu or Gojuryu.

Those non Isshinryu kata are all blackbelt level kata’s in their original styles hence our nickname. So that is another advancement we have, we don’t waste time with pinan’s. Our white belts start with Seisan which is a black belt kata from Shorin ryu.

Unfortunately the teaching of Seisan to white belts costs us more students than the groin kicks. We don’t always throw you to the wolves with the free fighting but we do with the kata.

Here is another interesting bit of history. Back in the 1920’s when the Japanese first asked the Okinawans to send them a karate master to demonstrate karate to them the unanimous first choice was their toughest fighter Choki Motobu.

The Okinawans were all set to send Motobu, till some sensible soul pointed out that Motobu was a barbarian who loved to fight, ate with his hands, was an Okinawan nationalist who fiercely hated the Japanese, who had taken on and defeated entire groups of people and that if he behaved in Japan the way he behaved in Okinawa the Japanese would have to bring in troops to shoot him.

So instead they chose to send a man who was a teacher of Japanese ettiquete who had impeccable manners and was the perfect example of a polite Japanese gentleman, Gichin Funakoshi. When Funakoshi had written a book on Japanese customs he had used the pen name Shotokan.

Here is good look at a healthy O’sensei Shimabuku at his dojo in Okinawa doing Kusanku kata. O’sensei was known for his front snap kicks and you can see it here. You also get to see his rapid fire snap punching Tatsuo Simabuku Kushanku Isshin ryu founder - YouTube

Here is a video of O’sensei Shimabuku demonstrating seisan kata. I would like to point out that at the time of filming he had a cold and had to do 14 more kata afterwards so he wasn’t trying to impress anyone, this was meant for educational purposes only.

Here is a more traditional version of seisan. Othsuka Seisan kata - YouTube

Here Shimabuku does chinto Chinto Kata - Isshinryu Karate & Kobudo - YouTube

Here is a traditional version of Chinto

Here is an Isshin ryu fighting demo from a fairly new school in the Netherlands. - YouTube

Here is Albert Mady who is from across the Detroit river in Canada. Master Mady is the same height as me but thicker. He spent many years working as a bouncer in a biker bar. You could always pick out his full contact fighters when they showed up at our tournament, because they would be carrying their gear in the same gym bags that they us for their hockey gear. So here is a tip. If you are at a full contact tournament and you see Canadians show up with hockey bags run like hell.

Here is a mere yellow belt doing seisan. Sadly he is showing a better technical knowledge of Isshinryu than all the Isshinryu black belts who have videos posted. I think the explanation for this is Isshinryu is the only system he has studied. Whereas the others have studied other styles which they don’t want to give up so they have bastardized their Isshinryu instead. There has been a lot of that unfortunately(we’ve been a system since 1954), and it is something to be aware of when looking at Isshinryu stylists, because you might not be seeing the real deal.

I am mainly a kickboxer these days. Daidojuku was a good experience and was the only thing close(that and judo) to my grandmother’s house when I stayed there in the summer.

Daidojuku is Kyokushin with more liberal rules and grappling. Azuma who formed Daidojuku was formerly with Kyokushin. These days in Japan(and alot of other countries besides the states) if you compete it is very difficult to get away from the Kykushin influence. Just the mechanics of how they throw techniques is very good and to deviate from the technique would leave you with something not as good.

Kyokushin has weakenesses created by the rules that govern their competitions. Guys are not very good at punching to the face. So they have some problems intially when they fight in K-1. Daido juku has holes in their defense, as you can see in that clip.
The Netherlands clip was interesting but those guys weren’t very good skill and technique wise. It kind of reminds me of the First World Kyokushin tournament. But in that tournament they had some very good fighters.

Things have evolved since then. Well they would not really pass muster with many karateka or kickboxers I know in Japan. Youtube is down right but guys who I think showed what truly great technique are: Shokei Matsui(current Chairman or Kyokushinkaikan), Midori Kenji(chairman or ShinKyokushinkai), Yamaki Kenji(runs a dojo in America these days), some of the Brazilians, Francisco Filho, Feitosa, Gary O’neil or Australia, Andy Hug(formerly Kyokushin,then Seidokaikan and K-1), Nicholas Pettas.

These days there are many guys who have very good technique polished over years and many competitions, it is quite surprising how many Japanese I meet who have very good technique. Many cross over into kickboxing, and do well. It only got that way from hard training and hard contact and years of practice.

I don’t remember practicing much kata when I went to Daido juku as a child. It was just sparring, conditioning, and technique, bag work, mitt work. Lots of conditioning, hundreds of kicks, hundreds of squats, lots of mitt work, sparring until you cannot stand. That was just the mentality in Japan back then, still is in many places.

You have alot of interesting information and probably know more about karate than most Japanese.

[quote]booger wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I remember I made fun of you for being an MMA tough guy and you claimed you didn’t do MMA but then you subsequently posted that you did BJJ.

BJJ is not MMA. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

I just heard an apropos quote: “Marines run to - not away from - the sound of gunfire.” Same thing with fighters: They run towards the violence.

If you’re sitting on a computer parading the horribles that will happen if you get hit in the face, you don’t have the warrior spirit. You either “get” this, or you don’t.

OP claims to have gone through PJ training. If that’s true, then he’s roughed out some of the toughest training the US military has to offer, in order to do a day job that involves risking his health and potentially his life to drag other people’s asses out of danger.

Obviously, a sissified job that doesn’t require any “warrior spirit”. Doing BJJ as a hobby makes you so much more hardcore and gets you so much more respect than saving lives under fire.[/quote]

I have worked as a mountain rescue guy from quite an early age till I had to move to the city… Lot of the guys were hard as nails, they could go the extra mile to find someone etc… Does that mean that they fit in a ring? or that they are natural fighters? Ofcourse not. Hardyness on one area doesen’t mean hardyness on another area. I was a ranger when i wad doing my mandatory service in norway, lot of tough guys… again: is that the same as being a fighter? :slight_smile: No…

You can be the best rescue swimmer, parachute fireman or best marine for that matter… without being cut out for fighting…

When it comes to being “scared” or “slagredd” as we call it in norwegian it is a quite normal reaction, I have been doing martial arts for 10 years soon, and even now, if i don’t spar for 1-2 months beacause of injuries, I get a bit “scared” and flinch in the first 2-3 rounds… after a few weeks getting used to it, I’m back in the “safe zone”…

So, my best tip is to get a few large gloves on (16oz pref) and get into a corner… and let someone hit you… I could post a vid of us doing that, but you get the picture i guess?

sorry folks got into this a bit late

I have trained and competed in a few martial arts. I dont particularly get and pleasure from being hit in the face and I have always found the anticipation worse than the act. I worked as door security for many years and whilst I dont consider myself any sort of toughman I was always wary of any confrontation. Does this mean I dont have the warrior spirit? Fine… I used to see enough of the saturday night barbarians and weekend warriors and my estimation of these people never really went up because they were willing to start or initiate trouble.

I believe everyone would benefit from some MA training and your confidence in your abilities as they grow should be your only deciding factor in whether or not you compete.

[quote]Scrappy wrote:
Sifu wrote:
At this tournament Team Isshinryu led by Gary Alexander defeated all comers.

Gary Alexander was one of the dominant fighters in the US karate scene for many years.

I just saw Gary at the mall this weekend. I trained with him when I was a kid.

[/quote]

WOW!! That is a hell of a person to start with as a kid.

I have not personally met Master Alexander but I have heard plenty from my teachers who know him.

I have a question for you that maybe you can answer for everyone. If I was to say that Gary Alexander is one hard marine. Am I in any way exagerating?

Thanks for the complement Otoko. If I have good knowledge it is because I was fortunate enough to have had exceptional teachers and I give full credit to my Sensei’s.

While there are other good teachers out there, I doubt I could ever find anyone in our system who has a substantially better knowledge of our system than my Sensei’s, they are some of the best.

When I was coming up I was averaging over 150 miles a week of driving going to the dojo’s that were affiliated with my home dojo that was a mile up the road. It took a lot of effort on my part but all that time on the road allowed me to train with several highly regarded masters including my Sensei.

I bet the Daidojuku people had you training hard. In Japan they consider the warrior spirit as something that is to be rigorously cultivated.

While it is true that you can become a brutal fighter without learning kata, they can be a useful tool. Each of the real old traditional kata’s back in the day were representative of a entire system of martial art or a substantial part of a given masters knowledge.

Some examples. Wansu kata (shotokan’s Empi)is called dumping form. It teaches 45 degree angles and take downs (dumps). After it’s introduction into Japan in the 1920’s it’s various throws, hip tosses and other takedown moves became very popular and safe versions of some of them played a role in the evolution of Judo.

Chinto kata was named after master Chinto who was a master of pivots. Pivots allow one to move their vitals out the way of an attack faster than angles while staying close enough to your opponent to immediately follow up follow up with a counter attack before they can recover.

Pivots can also be used to merely break focus. In break focus you still might get hit but you have backed away just enough and/or put the target at such an angle that the blow is past it’s focus point or doesn’t hit flush, greatly dissipating it’s power.

If you look at the video link for Chinto that I posted yesterday you’ll see that master Shimabuku stays within a very small area as this form is meant to teach you how to fight in a very confined space.

Angles and pivots are the only way that a small person can go up against a bigger stronger person and have any chance of survival. It doesn’t matter how big and strong you are. If you cannot connect solidly with your opponent you are going to have a hard time hurting them.

A good example of this was Tyson vs Holyfield. It’s little wonder Tyson bit Holyfield, he got frustrated because he couldn’t connect properly.

So kata can have a place. They are a safe way to teach children. They are a way to train alone. They are also a good way to train when you are older and just can’t take a beating anymore. If you get the right kata there can be a lot of useful knowledge. The practice of kata can be a very demanding form of self discipline.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Scrappy wrote:
Sifu wrote:
At this tournament Team Isshinryu led by Gary Alexander defeated all comers.

Gary Alexander was one of the dominant fighters in the US karate scene for many years.

I just saw Gary at the mall this weekend. I trained with him when I was a kid.

WOW!! That is a hell of a person to start with as a kid.

I have not personally met Master Alexander but I have heard plenty from my teachers who know him.

I have a question for you that maybe you can answer for everyone. If I was to say that Gary Alexander is one hard marine. Am I in any way exagerating?
[/quote]

Actually started with someone else, and had two senseis or whatever before Gary. Then I was with Gary a short time before ending up with someone nearby in NJ. I was with him until college. Then it was more karate and a bunch of other things until I met Renzo in '94 and pretty much trained BJJ and boxing/thai.

Gary definitely was/is a hard dude. He still a big dude but he’s a little older now.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
There’s a non-sequitor if I’ve ever seen one. Airforce airborne training is not hardcore - at all.

Now, if you had a Ranger tab… that’d be something special.[/quote]

Yea, not so special…

I was in the Air Force and knew some PJ’s. They don’t get to wear the maroon beret because the training wasn’t “something special”.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
True, it is the pits.

Then be honest with the OP. The OP obviously does not have what it takes to be a fighter. There is nothing wrong with that.

If a guy posts, “I might start deadlifting, but won’t that hurt my hands,” what would you say? Someone posting that he is afraid of getting hit in the head is not fighter material. You should be able to see that.

In the name of being “nice,” too many people on this board tell lies. Be real with the OP: He sounds like a first-rate sissy. He does not belong in an MMA gym. [/quote]

Actually he asked legitimate questions and from what I’ve seen people have given him legitimate answers.

You on the other hand have bitched and moaned about responses to a thread you didn’t even start. If I had to pick “a first rate sissy” in this thread it would be you.

I don’t really wanna get involved in this pissing match, so…

My experience with sparring has been painful, yes, but honestly if you’re interested in MMA get ready to accept pain, and lots of it. In my opinion, MMA athletes are some of the, if not the toughest guys on the planet. If you don’t want to experience pain, avoid any and all conflict. I Doubt you’ll get too far in anything with that though.

Get your TMJ checked out before you spar. Check your jaw muscles and see if there’s any adhesions or anything you can solve yourself without paying medical bills first.

Fighting hurts, sparring SHOULD hurt less. You get headaches, black eyes, bruises, whatever. Shit happens. The aim is not getting hit in the face though. And if you want to avoid getting hit, then fight smart. Look into more grappling techniques if you don’t like stand-up. Use your guard, learn to slip punches, etc. Hell, smoke a blunt after training, (BYE BYE HEADACHES! rofl), take a damn tylenol. Whatever.

Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.

[quote]alownage wrote:

Hell, smoke a blunt after training, (BYE BYE HEADACHES! rofl)[/quote]

Dude you smoke BEFORE training lol

How have you gone through 20ish years of life without a kiddie schoolyard brawl? Those are the best. I think your fear stems from your unsatisfied inner-child. So kick your highschool bullies’ ass by the monkey bars.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Why are you commenting about getting hit in the face on this thread? Does BJJ include stand up and punching in the face?[/quote]

I boxed for years. This including stepping in the ring as an amateur and training with professional boxers. None of the people I trained with felt fear about getting hit. No one liked it, but it wasn’t an “Oh, man, I’m so afraid of getting hit in the face.”

More ignorance. You have no idea what military training I’ve been through or what I’ve seen in the civilian world.

You’re entertaining, though, so keep typing!