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Question for Bill Roberts regarding Growth Surge Project

This question is for Bill or Chris or anyone else who may have some insight in regards to this question. In Bill’s “Chemical Solutions” article last week he mentioned that the first couple of weeks following a cycle should be high intensity (80% 1RM) to preserve the LBM you gained. I plan on doing growth surge project next week along with MAG-10 and I was looking at Phase 3 and saw that everything is 10-12 reps which isn’t too high as far as % of 1RM is concerned. Do you think it would be better to do less reps and higher weight in this phase or stick with the original protocol? Thanks, - Nic

I agree. I wouldn’t cut back in weight as quickly as this program does.

I’m sure Cy could answer better, but my impression (backed also by the statement that Part III is designed to phase you back into your own training routine) is that the Growth Surge Project is not designed as a recurrent program designed to go back-to-back with itself, but as a stand-alone.

Personally I’d arrange six weeks (two on, four off) this way:

(RM’s are relative to pre-cycle strength)

  1. 60% 1RM (“off”)
  2. 67-68% 1RM (“off”)
  3. 74-76% 1RM (“on”)
  4. 81-84% 1RM (“on”)

    5-6) same % 1RM (“off”)


  1. 60% 1RM (“off”)
  2. 65-66% 1RM (“off”)
  3. 70-72% 1RM (“off”)
  4. 75-78% 1RM (“on”)
  5. 80-84% 1RM (“on”)
  6. same % 1RM (“off”)

thanks a lot for the reply Bill. it looks like Growth Surge follows those guidelines fairly well until phase 3. if i plan on doing GS back to back, doing phase 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, should I just change all the rep ranges in phase 3 to between maybe 3-4 rather than 10-12? I figure since most of the compound exercises that are done in phase 2 are about 6 reps, doing the same percent 1RM while not on Mag 10 will yield a couple of reps less due to the elevated strength levels while on Mag10. does this sound like a good plan? I’d also love to hear Chris Shugarts opinion here since he is one of the creators of the Growth Surge Project. For those of you that have done the GS workouts with mag10 following the original rep guidelines of phase 3, how successfull were you at keeping your gains? I would think that with the Tribex/Methoxy/M stack in phase 3 that even with a higher rep range there would not be too much LBM loss or the difference in LBM loss between using a higher intensity training protocol as Bill suggests and using the lower intensity one given in GS would not be very much. Opinions?

Not to contradict what Bill said, but I did the GSP, made great gains and kept all of it. All of the gains came is the 2nd phase (8 lbs of LBM, strength through the roof), and I kept both size and strength with no problems at all afterwards. I will say, however, that I went on a sort of “maximal weights” program for a month afterwards, basically working in the 5-rep range. (Then I started HST, which was a mistake…)

Was this retention of strength with using MAG-10 during the Growth Surge, or doing Growth Surge without androgen supplementation?

One possibility there, if it was with MAG-10,
is that retention of gains from MAG-10 has been surprisingly high, to a degree that really surprises me. More so than with a pharmaceutical steroid cycle of say TA + Dianabol + Clomid, and not just due to differences in water retention. My guess is that the 4-AD-EC is lasting long enough into week 3 to really help retain gains while not interfering significantly with recovery, being a compound with, it seems, a very low ration of inhibition to anabolism.

As to whether 3-4 reps would be appropriate for the first 1 or 2 off weeks,
I doubt that reps would drop at all from while “on.” If anything they typically increase somewhat (I suppose because there were strength gains achieved from the last workout, not yet seen in that workout but to be seen in the following workouts while off.)

just bringing this back to the top. wanted to hear from some more people who have tried growth surge along with mag10 to see how you kept your gains in stage 3. Thanks, - Nic