T Nation

Question for Bill or Brock

For my first cycle I plan to do 3g of sustenon the first week then 1.5g every week after, 25mg Anabol/day, for a total of ten weeks. I can also get a kit of Humatrope. When should I start it during the cycle? I was planning to use 4iu/day(about five weeks worth). I have trained seriously for a little over 6 yrs and currently weigh 215lbs at 13-14% bodyfat. I will also use Clomid throughout the cylce and 4 weeks afterward. What are your thoughts on Thyroid use with this program? Would the T2 prohormone work just as well? Would injecting sustenon twice/week divided dose be more beneficial than once/week?

3g of Sustenon in one week!! That’s 12cc’s - right? If my calculations are right Sustenon comes in 250mg ampules. Please write back to the forum and tell us what you’re actually thinking.

Gramabol baby!!! 3g week one then ONLY 1g in weeks 2-10,
OK? 25mg of Anabol only needed for first 2 weeks. Clomid
at 100mg per day throughout and at 50mg per week for
14 days post.

GH - I would back down to 1-2 IU per day and use from
about day 28 until the end of the cycle.

T-2 will suffice if T-3 is not around.

–Brock

Hey JOHN, the second John not the one asking the question. It appears he is trying to do a version of the grammabol cycle. 12cc is not that much. 3cc per injection is 4 injections. He could do one in each cheek and one in each quad. Then he is done for a week. Then he could rotate each week with one in each quad, then the following week one in each cheek.

John U…I think you would be better served if you took 1 IU of growth hormone first thing in the morning and last thing at night. You would get 10 weeks of GH this way. GH works best with steroids. And combining the two, you can use less of each.

You’re talking almost 2 grams per week and this simply is not going to give better results for a beginner than 1 gram per week. At one gram per week, the “rate limiting factor” isn’t steroid availability, it’s other things. Only when you’ve gotten nearly as big as you can get on 1 gram per week – where your body has or has nearly established a homeostasis in size for your drug, nutrition, and training status – is there any reason to go to the level you are talking about. In fact many successful midlevel competitors (not Mr O or Arnold, but various regional NPC shows) don’t use as much as you are saying: it isn’t necessary but will increase side effects.

If bulking I personally suspect that thyroid just lets you be sloppier in your eating and doesn’t cause any more gains – I know others disagree but no one denies that you can make comparable gains without thryoid as with. If you are dieting down then there is a big difference. However, dieting down and also adding muscle at the same time is not a plan that makes sense: alternate them.

Injecting Sustanon twice a week is definitely preferable to once a week because some of the components are short acting.

Bill, I was going to use the thyroid to compensate for the downregulation caused by the growth hormone not because I have a sloppy diet. I already eat 6-8 times per day and these are BIG meals also. Before it was easy to put on 30lbs in a couple of months with just 5 meals. Now I eat more and I struggle for 10lbs a month. The problem is that I before it was mostly lean weight and now it is about 50/50. For some reason I seem to put on more strength than size and everyone notices in the gym. I just want to gain a massive amount of weight first and try to maintain with a 2 on/4 off cycle. Would you suggest an injection schedule of sustenon like one every 3rd/4th day?

Brock, I was thinking 4iu/day because most of the people I know that have used it only made good gains with 3-4iu/day. If you think 2iu/day will work then I’ll do that instead. My biggest problem now is not constructing the cycle but getting Clomid. The lowest I could find it for was $8/50mg tablet! No way I’ll pay that price. Comes out to about $800 extra on my cycle! What would you suggest is the best way to obtain it? And when should I use the T2? How much and how long? I want my thyroid gland to still work. Thanks for your input so far!

Sorry, John, I forgot you’d mentioned the GH (you can’t see the question while typing an answer on the forum!) That’s true, you have a point there.

Also I forgot to comment on the amount of GH: some people will do fine on that amount. I personally was done in (terrible joint pain) pretty quickly… I can’t remember how quickly now, but it was not more than a couple or a few weeks I think.

Yes, twice a week is fine for Sustanon.

John, clomid in mexico is only $4.00 for 10 tabs. For what you would save, take a trip. Heck, you could fly to mexico, spend the night, buy some things cheaper. Clomid fits nicely into an aspirin bottle. Cytomel (T3) is only $5.00 for 100 25mcg tabs. Something to think about. They are not controlled substances.

Bodz, do you know if I can order from a pharmacy in Mexico and get the Clomid in that way since it is not controlled?
I would really like to thank you Bill and Brock for your input. You’ve both been really helpful. I also wanted to know if you really feel the GH is worth it. I’ve personally seen fantastic results on a friend who claimed to be using nothing but GH. 4iu/day for five weeks, gained 25lbs and lost fat, kept all but 5lbs. I thought he was using something else but he swears he wasn’t. I was able to put that much weight on in a month but not all lean weight. He was 29 at the time I think. What results have you seen? I believe I’ve also read on the mesomorphosis site in a GH article that a diet higher in carbohydrates is preferred while on GH because of its affect on insulin levels. I usually split my diet into 40% Protein, 35-40% Carbohydrates, 20-25% Fat. In reality my carbs are a little lower. Higher carbs make me real fat.

That you’ll have to do on your own. If you do a search you will get alot of out of country pharmacies, but now you have to buy a list. I don’t know any I would recommend at this time. Sorry.

Dude your nuts. That is a serious amount of shit to do for a first cycle. You probably could get away with half the dosages and get nearly the same results. I would love to have the access to gear you apparentely have!