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Question about Weak Points

so i can 2 board press 405 , but i can only bench 350. what can i do to address this ? more bench ? stronger latts ? i been using the standard template using the conjugated method but should i change my DE day for bench to an assistance day ? i been stuck at 350 sinced june

Seems like a pretty normal difference considering the ROM’s 4 inches shorter tbh!!

[quote]BigMike wrote:
so i can 2 board press 405 , but i can only bench 350. what can i do to address this ? more bench ? stronger latts ? i been using the standard template using the conjugated method but should i change my DE day for bench to an assistance day ? i been stuck at 350 sinced june[/quote]

Bring up your shoulder press
Front Raise
Dumbell Bench and Dumbell Fly
Work on your pause bench and speed work

okay thanx. i still feel my lats need to get stronger

If you are worried about your lats just increase the frequency by throwing in some extra volume at the end of your leg workouts. Start gradually and build your way up. The lats recovery pretty quickly.

Some suggestions:

Pause all bench reps from now on.

Try arcing the bar back over your face more.

Continue speed work and/or add in some plyos like clap push-ups if you want to try that.

Are you good at pull-ups and/or bent over rows? If not definitely put them in and train hard on them.

Do more inclines, try pausing them as well.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/raw_bench_pressing.htm

I’m a shitty bench presser but I’ve been told by stronger guys and read stuff written by stronger guys that sums it up this way:

If you’re weak at the bottom, then maybe it’s your lat strength/technique. If you can’t stay tight at the bottom of the lift, you’ll go to shit. Maybe you can 2-Board so much more because you can get away with a weak setup but you can’t get away with it when Benching full range.

If you’re weak at the bottom, it could be that your chest and shoulders are weak. Duh. Do Inclines, Military Presses, Dumbbell work, and maybe even Cambered Bar work.

If you’re weak at the bottom, it could be because you’re slow. You should be able to blast up 185 like it’s an empty bar at your strength level.

Oh. Just thought of this. If you’re heaving off the boards for your 405 then that should account for some of the discrepancy. It’s your call if you want to keep the heave, use the overload of heavier weights it allows, and recognize it’s part of the reason your board work and full range bench is so far apart.

Or maybe you’re just built this way. If your 2-Board goes up 15 pounds and then your Flat Bench goes up 10, then who cares if there’s a big gap as long as you can still raise your Flat Bench. It’s not the end of the world if you’re just built a little differently than most people.

I dunno how strong your lats need to be. I’ve got very strong lats compared to everything else and all it seems to help with is Deads, Squats, Zerchers, and other non-upper body stuff.

I’ve seen plenty of Bench only guys who bench around 500 Raw and I never see them really do any aggressive Lat Work. They’ll hit some Dumbbell Rows with Weight below 100 pounds or do some Moderate Lat Pulldowns - really shit that even I could do. Then they’ll hit crazy weights on shoulder work and triceps work no matter the exercise.

One thing that really stood out at me when I watched Ryan Kennelly’s training video was how little effort he put into his back work (and his back is MASSIVE).

The only Powerlifters I’ve ever seen in person who really attack their Lat training are the one’s who do full meets.

Of course maybe I’m just dead wrong. I probably am. But that’s what I’ve seen.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:

One thing that really stood out at me when I watched Ryan Kennelly’s training video was how little effort he put into his back work (and his back is MASSIVE).
[/quote]

Just because it wasn’t on the tape doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. I’d be pretty sure he hammers the hell out of his back judging by the size of it.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Seems like a pretty normal difference considering the ROM’s 4 inches shorter tbh!![/quote]

Actually it’s only 3". Our 2x4’s are only 1 1/2 inches thick. We do that to mess with everyone else who is still stuck in the dark ages using the metric system. :wink:

My 2 board PR is only about 25lbs heavier than my full range.

[quote]Modi wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Seems like a pretty normal difference considering the ROM’s 4 inches shorter tbh!!

Actually it’s only 3". Our 2x4’s are only 1 1/2 inches thick. We do that to mess with everyone else who is still stuck in the dark ages using the metric system. :wink:

My 2 board PR is only about 25lbs heavier than my full range.[/quote]

Grrrrr!!

I’ve had good luck lately with making my second day an overhead press day, instead of a DE day. Bringing up my shoulder strength has started to pay off after hitting a plateau for a while.

I usually pick an overhead movement (seated shoulder press, shoulder press paused on the pins, high incline press, etc.) follow it with a high rep set, then a lockout movement (3-5 board, manpon, press from pins,etc.), and some heavy plate raises.

I think a lot of PL’ers (myself included) tend to neglect their shoulder strength because you can get away with it if you are using a shirt. But if you are training/competing unequipped the added shoulder strength will really help you out of the bottom.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
FightingScott wrote:

One thing that really stood out at me when I watched Ryan Kennelly’s training video was how little effort he put into his back work (and his back is MASSIVE).

Just because it wasn’t on the tape doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. I’d be pretty sure he hammers the hell out of his back judging by the size of it.[/quote]

No doubt. There wasn’t much aside from him Benching and doing very light assistance work. I know he does a pretty long training cycle where he works up from many sets of triples around 50% till and then increases the weight and decreases the set.

I’ve also read in I think it was a critical bench interview that he does Squat and Dead. He says he plays around with 500 for Deads but goes heavy on Squats.

So I’m guessing it might be when the video was shot it’s at a time where he’s cut back on his heavy assistance stuff so he make room for insanely heavy benching.

But still, I haven’t SEEN it. There’s a guy at my home gym who I’ve seen hit a 585 Raw Bench and a 495 Incline in the same day. I’ve also seen him do what looked like around 800 off a 3-Board in a single ply shirt.

His back is also huge, but all I ever see him do for it is light rear delt cable flys lying on a flat bench and Hammer High-Rows with 4 plates a side. He approaches his back training the same way any sane person approaches pushdowns.

But if he’s doing assistance work for his triceps or shoulders it’s insane shit like seated 1-Arm Dumbbell Presses with 135lbs.

Of course, I haven’t seen what any of these guys have been doing over the course of what has surely been more than a decade of training. It just seems like whenever I see someone who falls into the category of brutally strong on the Bench Press whose training their back, it just seems like their going through the motions and using pretty moderate weights.

But if they are putting a lot of effort into their Lat training, it seems like they also happen to be training for full power meets.

Again, I surely haven’t seen enough to act like this is the way the world is, but it just seems peculiar to me.

[quote]BigMike wrote:
so i can 2 board press 405 , but i can only bench 350. what can i do to address this ? more bench ? stronger latts ? i been using the standard template using the conjugated method but should i change my DE day for bench to an assistance day ? i been stuck at 350 sinced june[/quote]

What can you 1-board and 3-board press? You want to see a fairly constant gap between boards. For instance if you get 385 on one board…you need more bottom end strength. If you can only get 415 on 3 boards you need more top end work. Bottom end work would be dumbbell presses, cambered bar, or even some pec isolation.

Top end work is usually tricep work. Lats and delts are mostly involved in keeping the bar in the groove (or in keeping your elbows from flaring out)…so you can really use your triceps. Also obtain a 4 and 5 board max. They are not as valuable information as the lower boards but they reveal something about your individual force curve in the bench press. One of the worse mistake one can do is to “specialize” on a given board. This flies in the face of the “conjugate method”.