Because developing size and strength are two different things. If developing your chest is your priority, and your body naturally shifts the stress to tris and delts for whatever reason, you may never fully reach the point of fatigue with your pecs enough to cause optimal stimulus.
S
It seems that ācompound movementsā have taken the term from ābodybuildingā and switched it a little.
In bodybuilding, many people trained muscle groups. If I want a huge ass chest and my shoulders always fire first and keep that from happening, I PRE-FATIGUE my shoulders.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Because developing size and strength are two different things. If developing your chest is your priority, and your body naturally shifts the stress to tris and delts for whatever reason, you may never fully reach the point of fatigue with your pecs enough to cause optimal stimulus.
S[/quote]
Which is why in that case you would PRE-FATIGUE your tris and delts so you CAN get a huge chest.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Because developing size and strength are two different things. If developing your chest is your priority, and your body naturally shifts the stress to tris and delts for whatever reason, you may never fully reach the point of fatigue with your pecs enough to cause optimal stimulus.
S[/quote]
Which is why in that case you would PRE-FATIGUE your tris and delts so you CAN get a huge chest.[/quote]
Well then by your own logic, I must be doing it wrong -lol.
Iām out.
S
I am laughing at how the definition got switched.
I PRE-FATIGUE my forearms before training biceps because my forearms fire first.
That has now led to more biceps growth.
The way you guy are doing it, I would train biceps firstā¦which would suck because my forearms would still fire first.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.
Iām doing it wrong.[/quote]
I think that āpre-fatiguingā wasnāt the word the OP was looking for.
What Stu and BlueCollar described is really more about establishing the MMC and ensuring that the pressing movement will focus on the contraction. For me, at least, if I start out with a pressing motion my shoulders and tris will tend to get more involved if I havenāt already warmed up with something thatās a more āstrictly chestā movement, like a fly.[/quote]
Maybe it was, maybe it wasnāt.
Iām not sureā¦but warming up is on a different planet than āpre-fatigueā. You usually only pre-fatigue a muscle if it is interfering or becoming the optimal mover in an exercise when the goal is another muscle group.
I donāt āpre-fatigueā anything.
I warm up like crazy though now.[/quote]
I personally find the opposite. I find that if I pre exhaust my triceps before working my shoulders, my triceps end up failing before my shoulders and I get a less than stellar shoulder workout. [/quote]
Now mind you, your own personal experience shows this to be the caseā¦but somehow I got it wrong.
I know this term may be used now in fitness sites, but in bodybuilding historically years ago, I think it meant getting a muscle that fires first when you donāt want it to to tire first.
HOLY CRAP!!! I just learnt something from T-Nation!!! gasp gasp faints, lol!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.
Iām doing it wrong.[/quote]
I think that āpre-fatiguingā wasnāt the word the OP was looking for.
What Stu and BlueCollar described is really more about establishing the MMC and ensuring that the pressing movement will focus on the contraction. For me, at least, if I start out with a pressing motion my shoulders and tris will tend to get more involved if I havenāt already warmed up with something thatās a more āstrictly chestā movement, like a fly.[/quote]
Maybe it was, maybe it wasnāt.
Iām not sureā¦but warming up is on a different planet than āpre-fatigueā. You usually only pre-fatigue a muscle if it is interfering or becoming the optimal mover in an exercise when the goal is another muscle group.
I donāt āpre-fatigueā anything.
I warm up like crazy though now.[/quote]
I personally find the opposite. I find that if I pre exhaust my triceps before working my shoulders, my triceps end up failing before my shoulders and I get a less than stellar shoulder workout. [/quote]
Now mind you, your own personal experience shows this to be the caseā¦but somehow I got it wrong.
I know this term may be used now in fitness sites, but in bodybuilding historically years ago, I think it meant getting a muscle that fires first when you donāt want it to to tire first.[/quote]
I donāt know what you would like to call in then X lolā¦
I just want to be able to feel my chest doing more of the work than my shoulders or tris. So by your logic, I should be pre-fatiguing shoulders and tris to accomplish this?
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
I donāt know what you would like to call in then X lolā¦
I just want to be able to feel my chest doing more of the work than my shoulders or tris. So by your logic, I should be pre-fatiguing shoulders and tris to accomplish this?[/quote]
Thatās what I would do and what every HUGE guy over 35 I have known didā¦but I also know that the internet has made jargon king so what you call something is now very important.
In short, I am not arguing whether it should be called something.
I am saying your problem aināt a new one and the way HUGE guys used to fix it was PRE-FATIGUING a muscle group so it didnāt fire first.
You can call it āfarting to the westā for all I careā¦I just know how to get you swole.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
I donāt know what you would like to call in then X lolā¦
I just want to be able to feel my chest doing more of the work than my shoulders or tris. So by your logic, I should be pre-fatiguing shoulders and tris to accomplish this?[/quote]
Thatās what I would do and what every HUGE guy over 35 I have known didā¦but I also know that the internet has made jargon king so what you call something is now very important.
In short, I am not arguing whether it should be called something.
I am saying your problem aināt a new one and the way HUGE guys used to fix it was PRE-FATIGUING a muscle group so it didnāt fire first.
You can call it āfarting to the westā for all I careā¦I just know how to get you swole.[/quote
Please sirā¦by all meansā¦get me swole. I will indeed fart to the west for you.
Ok so say Iām doing chest. I could start by doing some high rep tricep push downs and laterals? I know itās not an exact science, but would sayā¦3 sets of each at around 15 reps do the trick? Would I have accomplished farting in the direction that the sun sets?
If I pre exhaust my triceps, it doesnāt cause my shoulders to fire first. My tris are already warmed up, theyāre firing first. And theyāre going to fail first. Which means I can no longer perform the movement and my shoulders barely got a workout.
You trollinā bro?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If MY goal is chestā¦and my triceps interfere and always take more of the load, I PRE-FATIGUE the triceps so they are more out of the picture when I train chestā¦so my chest gets more of the load.
That means more chest growth.[/quote]
I have never met anyone who takes that approach. If I pre-fatigued my triceps before benching, it would turn it into a triceps movement for me, and seemingly everyone else in this thread (and in every gym Iāve ever been to). My chest wouldnāt have the opportunity to be overloaded because it would be limited by my tricepsā fatigue. Different strokes, I suppose.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
If I pre exhaust my triceps, it doesnāt cause my shoulders to fire first. My tris are already warmed up, theyāre firing first. And theyāre going to fail first. Which means I can no longer perform the movement and my shoulders barely got a workout.
You trollinā bro?[/quote]
? Do you really think I am talking about using so much weight that you are going all out on triceps? We are talking about fatigue here. The goal is not all out failure of a muscle to fire at all.
WTf?
[quote]bcingu wrote:
I have never met anyone who takes that approach. If I pre-fatigued my triceps before benching, it would turn it into a triceps movement for me,[/quote]
? If you did some sets of triceps extensions first this means you canāt bench?
[quote]
and seemingly everyone else in this thread (and in every gym Iāve ever been to). My chest wouldnāt have the opportunity to be overloaded because it would be limited by my tricepsā fatigue. Different strokes, I suppose.[/quote]
If your chest canāt do a bench press because your triceps got tired, that is a sure fire sign that your triceps are involved too much and take too much of the stress during the movement.
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Please sirā¦by all meansā¦get me swole. I will indeed fart to the west for you.
Ok so say Iām doing chest. I could start by doing some high rep tricep push downs and laterals? I know itās not an exact science, but would sayā¦3 sets of each at around 15 reps do the trick? Would I have accomplished farting in the direction that the sun sets?[/quote]
Yes, that is what I would do. Do a few sets with the goal of FATIGUING the triceps, not all out failure so they donāt work anymore. The goal is not super heavy weight here.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
You trollinā bro?[/quote]
I do have to laugh at this tho.
Uh, yeahā¦me writing how I got arms this big is ātrollināā.
Today, most people apparently think ābulking upā means ābecome obeseāā¦so I already know I am iout of date with some of the terms.
But I also know if a bodybuilder has a problem where their shoulders always take most of the force and are growing like crazy before their chest, they either need to move to mostly decline and flat (with heavy emphasis on the decline) or they may want to try doing a few sets of shoulder work first in the workout to FATIGUE that muscle group.
OF COURSE it will make the bench press harder at firstā¦,.BECAUSE YOUR SHOULDERS USED TO DO MOST OF THE WORK.
theres something not right here. I thought everyone knew that the way to pre-fatigue was the way Stu described it earlier in this thread.
disclaimer:-
no i am not huge
no i dont have big pecs
no i have never trained anyone
no i cannot back up my thoughts with scientific research
[quote]bluebrasil wrote:
theres something not right here. I thought everyone knew that the way to pre-fatigue was the way Stu described it earlier in this thread.
disclaimer:-
no i am not huge
no i dont have big pecs
no i have never trained anyone
no i cannot back up my thoughts with scientific research
[/quote]
That would be the correct definition. No one is arguing with him about the correct definition.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
If I pre exhaust my triceps, it doesnāt cause my shoulders to fire first. My tris are already warmed up, theyāre firing first. And theyāre going to fail first. Which means I can no longer perform the movement and my shoulders barely got a workout.
You trollinā bro?[/quote]
? Do you really think I am talking about using so much weight that you are going all out on triceps? We are talking about fatigue here. The goal is not all out failure of a muscle to fire at all.
WTf?[/quote]
Iām not either. Start typing slower and maybe weāll understand each other a little better. Because right now the only person in this thread being misunderstood has a name that almost rhymes with molester sex.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Please sirā¦by all meansā¦get me swole. I will indeed fart to the west for you.
Ok so say Iām doing chest. I could start by doing some high rep tricep push downs and laterals? I know itās not an exact science, but would sayā¦3 sets of each at around 15 reps do the trick? Would I have accomplished farting in the direction that the sun sets?[/quote]
Yes, that is what I would do. Do a few sets with the goal of FATIGUING the triceps, not all out failure so they donāt work anymore. The goal is not super heavy weight here.[/quote]
Gotccha, I will give it a try next week. Worst case scenario, I get an additional tricep pump with my chest workout lol.
Thanks Professor.