Question about E2 and Testosterone Percentage in the Body

so, having high testosterone is the key and I have been convinced higher estrogen levels are just as important so will see what happens. Thanks. Hope I did not do irreversible damage due to my use of AI s for so long in the past.

I was one of those that was terrified of e2 when I was cycling and for the first 2 years of TRT I really overdid it with the anastrozole. I stopped taking AI months ago and do feel much better. I donā€™t think youā€™ve done any permanent damage

I got a reply from an anti aging clinic that I was talking with and this is the reply to my asking if 40-100 would be worth a try for the E2. I also told them my T would be at 1200-1500 level.
ā€œIf your estrogen levels go up that high, you will feel awful. A lot more problems when it gets that high in menā€.

Are they assuming this? or have they seen it happen since they deal with TRT?

They want to sell you additional drugs.

not much money to be made on anastrozole, the clinics really believe in keeping E2 in the 20-30 range as almost every one out there does. read below my correspondence with life extension who suggests anastrozole but DO NOT sell it.

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

We are sorry to hear about the symptoms you are experiencing, and for any confusion. We are happy to provide our viewpoints on estradiol levels in men. Life Extension views blood levels of estradiol to be 20-30 pg/mL on a reference range of 7.6-42.6 pg/mL when using the ELCIA estradiol serum test by LabCorp to be optimal. This is because estradiol levels above and below this range have been linked with an elevated risk of mortality in men. Additionally, elevated estradiol levels above the reference range and linked with cardiovascular disease and prostate enlargement men. Levels that are below the reference range are linked with increased fracture risk. All of this data points to the need for estradiol to be healthy as a male but too much or too little being detrimental to long term health.

That range does not take into account a ratio of total testosterone to estradiol. This can also be important as both hormones work in unison to support libido, erections, mood, muscle mass, muscle recovery, glucose metabolism, cognition, and overall health. Life Extension views a total testosterone to estradiol ratio of around 23-40 to be optimal using LabCorp reference ranges. This can help point us toward an optimal for total testosterone levels being around 700-900 ng/dL on a reference range of 264-916 ng/dL when using a LabCorp test to maintain an ideal ratio.

We support the use of aromatase inhibiting medications if needed to help a male maintain an optimal total testosterone to estradiol ratio and optimal estradiol levels. Please note, if oneā€™s reference ranges differ from the listed above, then the data provided may not apply as the information above only applies to LabCorp reference ranges. We suggest discussing these optimal ranges with your doctor to evaluate what numbers may apply to you to support your overall health. We do not suggest stopping your medication without talking to your doctor first. Here are links to articles and our protocols on Lab Testing and Male Hormone Restoration you can review with your doctor:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15669538

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00075.x

Type a messageā€¦

This discussion will be never ending until a long term study on men on TRT will be published.
Anyone who claims to have the answer for you is basically lying, because the long term data simply donā€™t exist. To summarise:

  • Running supra physiological testosterone levels may or may not result in cardiovascular events. The old school medical literature found a link with high T and CVD, that has been debunked according to some other studies. No one knows. No natural men in any study whatsoever ever showed a total T higher than 1100, and the few that were around that number were having higher SHBG numbers.

  • Running supra physiological levels of E2 may or may not lead to prostate cancer and CVD in the long term. No one knows. No natural male human being ever showed an E2>50 followed by normal-high androgens levels.

  • No one ever published a study on long term usage of AIs to keep your E2 on levels that has been observed in healthy young men. You could get serious side effects and long term issues with them. No one knows. You have to consider you are committing to take a synthetic drug that has to be metabolised by the liver for the rest of your life though.

If I were you, I would have tried to lower the dose and get off the AI. This is my personal opinion though and Iā€™m no doctor by any chance.
My goal is to stay on less drugs as possible and to have an hormonal panel similar to young healthy guys.
Others here will disagree with me.

Read all opinions and work with your doctor on what you think itā€™s the right treatment for you.

Theyā€™re going to believe what theyā€™re going to believeā€¦ not much chance of your changing their mind, but there are a ton of stories of people getting off the AI and feeling way, way better. Itā€™s worth a shot. Iā€™d try just not taking it and see what happens. I havenā€™t read your whole thread so maybe that wasnā€™t an option. Hopefully you feeling better with higher E2 will be some evidence to them that not everyone does best at 20-30.

My belief is it puts doctors in a catch 22. They either have to admit theyā€™ve been wrong for however many years and what they were doing was NOT the best thing for their patient, or they keep on saying ā€œyep, needs to be 20-30ā€ and continue on as-is and stick their head in the sand. I always wondered if it created a liability issue if a patient had bone or heart issues from low E2 and the doc finally came out and said ā€œoh yeah, low E2 isnā€™t so good after all, I was wrong, oopsā€.

Iā€™m mostly just thinking out loud at this point, but itā€™s something Iā€™ve thought.

Study wiseā€¦ Iā€™ve never seen any long term studies of people on TRT and no AI vs. on a ā€œreasonableā€ dose of AI to prove one is safer than the other. I donā€™t think that data exists yet.

regular doctors do not have anything to do with E2 or managing estrogen in men. Only anti aging doctors do this.

What about symptoms though? Do you experience symptoms resolution with an AI and you feel well, or are you just concerned about numbers?

check out my blood work just received yesterday. taking 25 mg DHEA each day. Inject 46 mg T E4 D. take .25 mg anastrazole every other injection or every 8th day.

i think all looks great. but I want to try to eliminate the AI. what do you guys suggest?

Yes, I would try dropping the AI

i would appreciate some comments on my blood work I just posted. thanks guys

Do it. When, relative to your 46mg injection, was your blood drawn?

my blood was drawn on day 4 of my E4D injection schedule. I injected AFTER the blood was drawn

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