I appreciate the advice but in my own defense I’d like to say that I am a fully functional person. I can walk/run lift weights and do hiit just fine. I was doing hiit 7 days a week when I was at this weight before. I can show you pictures of myself trust me I’m not some super huge monster who can barely walk. I infact have no idea why I weigh so much, everyone’s jaw drops when I tell them I am as heavy as I am. Most people confuse me with a 165 pound person.
[quote]Nikki9591 wrote:
[quote]riddle22 wrote:
Does anyone actually read what people post before responding? This individual is [u]5’1"[/u]! At 230lbs, that makes him extremely obese. Instead of wondering why he want’s to weigh 150lbs (which a perfectly healthy weight for his height), we should probably be pointing out that he’s in no shape to be doing HIIT, is posting in the wrong forum, and should probably be a lot more worried about diet at this point.[/quote]
Have you ever been 230 pounds at 5’1?
Because I’ve been over 200 pounds at 5’0 and I was able to do HiiT and lift weights.
[/quote]
you were over 200 !!! . youv’e done great things to your bod . RESPEK
[quote]riddle22 wrote:
[quote]Nikki9591 wrote:
Have you ever been 230 pounds at 5’1?
Because I’ve been over 200 pounds at 5’0 and I was able to do HiiT and lift weights.
[/quote]
Good for you then. You’re the exception to the rule. I heard about someone who went down Niagra falls in a barrel and survived, does that mean everyone should do it?
Just because you were able to do sprints at that height and weight without injuring yourself doesn’t mean someone else can and it is reckless to be giving people that kind of advice. I just think it is absolutely ridiculous that people on this forum (not you in particular) are telling a morbidly obese person that they need to worry about building muscle.
I wholeheartedly agree that weight training should be the cornerstone of any fat loss program. However, you must crawl before you can walk. A person doesn’t get to be that obese in that short amount of time by just eating a little too much. That requires a sedentary lifestyle and/or massive amounts of overeating. It is best to build up work capacity gradually, aka going for a walk. Yes, there are plenty of examples of people who go from sedentary straight to balls to the wall training and experience success. These cases are the exceptions though, and for every person who finds success doing that there are 50 who fail.[/quote]
I didn’t say that I did sprints, I said that I did HiiT.
You assume too much, just like you’re assuming that this guy can’t do anything because he’s overweight.
If the OP has the willpower and determination to do HiiT, why tell him “No, you should just walk.”
And thank you lia67.
I did sprints for the first 20 days of November straight. Let’s not get into the argument about what I can and cannot do. I am well aware of what I am capable of and I know when to hold back from pushing myself to dangerous levels. My only question was whether or not it was best for me to combine weight training and cardio or to do cardio twice a day. That question has been answered. Now my only remaining question is what is a good strength training regimen for me.
[quote]Nikki9591 wrote:
[quote]riddle22 wrote:
[quote]Nikki9591 wrote:
Have you ever been 230 pounds at 5’1?
Because I’ve been over 200 pounds at 5’0 and I was able to do HiiT and lift weights.
[/quote]
Good for you then. You’re the exception to the rule. I heard about someone who went down Niagra falls in a barrel and survived, does that mean everyone should do it?
Just because you were able to do sprints at that height and weight without injuring yourself doesn’t mean someone else can and it is reckless to be giving people that kind of advice. I just think it is absolutely ridiculous that people on this forum (not you in particular) are telling a morbidly obese person that they need to worry about building muscle.
I wholeheartedly agree that weight training should be the cornerstone of any fat loss program. However, you must crawl before you can walk. A person doesn’t get to be that obese in that short amount of time by just eating a little too much. That requires a sedentary lifestyle and/or massive amounts of overeating. It is best to build up work capacity gradually, aka going for a walk. Yes, there are plenty of examples of people who go from sedentary straight to balls to the wall training and experience success. These cases are the exceptions though, and for every person who finds success doing that there are 50 who fail.[/quote]
I didn’t say that I did sprints, I said that I did HiiT.
You assume too much, just like you’re assuming that this guy can’t do anything because he’s overweight.
If the OP has the willpower and determination to do HiiT, why tell him “No, you should just walk.”
And thank you lia67.[/quote]
You’re right about assumptions, but we’re all making them. You’re assuming that he can do certain things despite his weight. The people who didn’t pay attention to his post assumed he was of average height and started talking about building muscle.
I have been training clients for 4 years now and I have seen just about everything when it comes to people who need to lose weight. I’ve seen plenty of extremely overweight people who can move perfectly fine and can do just about anything in terms of exercise. As I’ve already pointed out though, this is the exception. For every person like that, I see plenty of others who need to start off slow.
When making assumptions it is always best to underestimate someone’s abilities than to overestimate them. By underestimating, you’re simply going to start them off with activities that are easy for them. By overestimating, you’re setting them up to fail and putting them in a position to injure themselves. Do you see the difference? I think this article by Jim Wendler sums it up nicely: http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/training-articles/from-fat-ass-to-bad-ass/. Obviously he was capable of much more than walking, but that’s what he started with and guess what, it worked.
The OP just posted that he is capable of sprinting, so I’ll have to take his word for it. I still think diet should be the #1 priority, that he should start off slow (maybe not just walking, but sprinting 7 days a week is definitely too much), and that he should probably seek further advice about weight training in the beginner forum.
Riddle, when you say sprinting 7 days a week is too much, do you mean too much as in unhealthy to do? Or to much as in physically dangerous for my legs? Because if it’s not either of those reasons I can assure you it’s not a matter of will, nor is a matter of me not being capable. If I wasn’t capable, I wouldn’t have even suggested it. Also, diet is my number 1 priority right now.
[quote]ACatigbe wrote:
Riddle, when you say sprinting 7 days a week is too much, do you mean too much as in unhealthy to do? Or to much as in physically dangerous for my legs? Because if it’s not either of those reasons I can assure you it’s not a matter of will, nor is a matter of me not being capable. If I wasn’t capable, I wouldn’t have even suggested it. Also, diet is my number 1 priority right now.[/quote]
It is not unhealthy, it is dangerous as far as injuries are concerned. I wouldn’t recommend sprinting 7 days a week to even the fittest of athletes.
In response to this question:
[quote]Nikki9591 wrote:
If the OP has the willpower and determination to do HiiT, why tell him “No, you should just walk.”[/quote]
I would say to just walk because no amount of willpower and determination can prevent an injury. Sure, there’s a chance that you could sprint everyday and not hurt yourself. It doesn’t make it a good idea though. When I was young and dumb I used to routinely do 150+ on my motorcycle. Obviously I didn’t kill myself. I had fun doing it and never experienced negative consequences. Does this mean I should recommend it to others?
When I say to start off walking, I mean just that: start off walking. Whether you do this for 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months before you include other activity is up to you. The article I posted a link to has an excellent example of what I’m talking about. You most definitely should start to include weight training, but should start with something basic. The problem with asking for weight training advice on this forum is that 90% of the programs people suggest will be designed for those looking to gain weight. The same basic principles apply and the same basic exercises should be used, but if you’re looking to lose a massive amount of weight, you won’t be able to handle the volume of lifting that will most likely be suggested. This is why I think you should start slow and educate yourself as much as possible so that you can determine what’s best for you. Do not just blindly follow any specific program that someone posts.
You really are good at telling people they can’t do things. I say I’m capable of sprinting, you suggest walking. I ask for weight training advice, you say I won’t be able to handle it. You’re advice sounds geared towards 600+ pound disabled people. I am not one of those people. I am capable of lifting weights. I am capable of doing hiit. Your point is valid, maybe I shouldn’t do 7 days. I’ll do 5 days for 45 minutes just as Teddy suggested, but I’d like to start lifting just like any other normal person would and no, I’m not looking to hear you tell me I should start lifting the god damn milk gallons in my fridge.
Riddle, I understand what you’re saying, but I push ALL of my clients. It’s not about over or underestimating, it’s about pushing them out of their comfort zone.
I have clients who think that they can just curl 5 pounds, so I give them 8. When my clients only want to walk on the treadmill, I make them walk at an incline. Just because I want people to do more than they think they’re capable of, it doesn’t mean that I have everyone doing tabatas.
Pick a program, doesnt matter what it is. Stick with it, 6 weeks later or whenever you stop seeing results, do a different one. Simple. You will see and feel the difference, if your diet is in check and you are honest with yourself. Or get a trainer who produces results.
OP, pretty much timmy’s advice.
Riddle’s credibility was lost when he said that 90% of the programs people will suggest is towards gaining weight.
Keep it simple. Basic is better. persistence will see you get results. add hiit, running, sprints…whatever you want to do on the days off from lifting. done. Keep us posted on results please.
[quote]ACatigbe wrote:
You really are good at telling people they can’t do things. I say I’m capable of sprinting, you suggest walking. I ask for weight training advice, you say I won’t be able to handle it. You’re advice sounds geared towards 600+ pound disabled people. I am not one of those people. I am capable of lifting weights. I am capable of doing hiit. Your point is valid, maybe I shouldn’t do 7 days. I’ll do 5 days for 45 minutes just as Teddy suggested, but I’d like to start lifting just like any other normal person would and no, I’m not looking to hear you tell me I should start lifting the god damn milk gallons in my fridge. [/quote]
Here, you want to jump all in head first then be my guest.
Read that and every article linked in it and you shouldn’t need to seek any advice from any of us. I’m not telling you you can’t do anything. I’m telling you not to jump into a weight training program designed for skinny high school kids that has you lifting 2 hours a day 5 days a week while you’re already sprinting 5 days a week. Do that if you want to, but I would be willing to bet my life savings that if you do, 6 months from now you will have quit. It has nothing to do with willpower and determination, it’s called overtraining and you will wreak havoc on your body if you do an extreme amount of training without working yourself up to that work capacity.
I’m trying to help you out because I see this all too often. People let themselves get completely out of shape, then they want to be all gung-ho about working out and start training 7 days a week. This lasts anywhere from a few days to a few months before they just quit altogether. You need a lifestyle change and while some people have success going from doing nothing to doing everything, the vast majority become burnt out after a while. Sometimes it’s motivation that waivers, sometimes it’s their body becoming overworked, but most of the time it’s a combination of both.
If you know nothing about weight training, then you won’t know the difference between different programs. Some are designed for skinny people trying to gain weight. These will most likely include a high volume of lifting and require someone to eat 4000+ calories a day just so their body can properly recover. Obviously if you are doing HIIT and this type of weight training while eating a calorie restricted diet, you will be doing too much. All I’m trying to do is steer you clear of this.
If you weight trained 3-4 days a week with basic exercises at a moderate intensity, walked on your days off, and increased both the volume and intensity of both activities every week, you will see the progress you desire.
5’1 230 is definitely obese but, I don’t think it should hinder you from lifting or doing cardio safely. Especially since you’ve done this type of stuff before. May want to be careful with sprints though, all that weight on your joints may cause some problems down the road. Personally, I fucking hate sprints, my knees kill me after wards. So, I do the elliptical machines and or walk on an incline.
I’ve never done p90x, but I hear pretty good things about it; especially from people who were once overweight and transformed themselves into a very fit individual. I hear it comes with a diet to follow too, such as low carb/fat and high protein. I enjoy lifting much more than that type of stuff, but you may want to look into it.
[quote]Nikki9591 wrote:
Riddle, I understand what you’re saying, but I push ALL of my clients. It’s not about over or underestimating, it’s about pushing them out of their comfort zone.
I have clients who think that they can just curl 5 pounds, so I give them 8. When my clients only want to walk on the treadmill, I make them walk at an incline. Just because I want people to do more than they think they’re capable of, it doesn’t mean that I have everyone doing tabatas.
[/quote]
If you are a trainer, you should see the distinct difference between pushing someone who you have assessed and are supervising versus pushing someone on an internet forum who you know nothing about other than that he is 5’1 230.
Trust me, I am the last person that would be accused of going easy on a client, but the fact that no one pointed out the utter ridiculousness of an obese person sprinting 7 days a week just boggled my mind. Instead I saw people suggest that he should focus on building muscle and the fact that no one noticed the utter ridiculousness of that boggled my mind even more. Are you kidding me?
All I’ve been saying this whole time is that he should start slow and work his way up to more intense exercise that’s it. I never said more intense exercise wasn’t necessary. All I see is him wanting to sprint 5+ days a week for 45-60 minutes and then people suggesting that he add serious weight training in on top of that, all while he’s never even touched a weight before in his life. That is just a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Overtraining wouldn’t be an issue, but doing sprinting and hiit type training daily will give adrenal burnout, then you won’t feel like training at all. If you do do high intensity work keep it at two times a week max, and not back to back days. Use complexes, treadmill or spin classes whatever you desire. I wouldn’t neglect a long slow run a week though.
Riddle - you insulted people here before the thread even got going (I never even got a chance to say anything about the HIIT 7x/week which’s too much). Don’t expect people to give you any respect after that.
There’s no reason why this guy can’t weight lift; he’ll gain 20lbs of muscle without hardly even trying while he’s dieting off the fat - he’s a newbie to lifting, and has a heavy build…so I don’t appreciate being called a half-wit for saying that.
And how stupid do you think we would be to recommend some skinny guy program where he’d be recommended to eat 4000+cals???
I think I’ve said about 5 times now that I think he should lift weights because it is the most effective thing for fat loss. Muscle mass should not be a concern for him at this point though, his overall health should be. This is why I also said multiple times that a bodybuilding forum is not the place for him to be seeking advice.
I will admit that I probably overreacted a little bit, as Teddy057 and a few others did give the OP some sound advice. I guess I was just reacting more to the overall trend of people on T-Nation to just start doling out advice without even reading all of the information OPs provide. This frustrates me not only because it often leads to inappropriate suggestions, but because this is how incorrect information gets spread.
I am a bit confused about some of the information you all are giving me. I realize now that the best option for me will be a combination of a good diet, decent resistance training and hiit. However, some of you are saying I’ll actually build muscle while trying to lose the weight? I thought building muscle wasn’t possible unless I was on a caloric surplus.
[quote]ACatigbe wrote:
I am a bit confused about some of the information you all are giving me. I realize now that the best option for me will be a combination of a good diet, decent resistance training and hiit. However, some of you are saying I’ll actually build muscle while trying to lose the weight? I thought building muscle wasn’t possible unless I was on a caloric surplus.[/quote]
This is exactly why I originally suggested that this wasn’t the best forum for your questions, because people invariably will always talk about building muscle. It is possible to build muscle while in a caloric deficit, especially if you are brand new to weight training. For your situation though, I would just consider this a side benefit of the weight training. Your primary use for weight training should be to burn fat, for which it is a very effective tool. It is impossible for any of us to quantify any muscle gain you might see, but people will certainly try to guess.
Again, I’m not trying to tell you what you can and can’t do though. Just know that excessive HIIT is not a good idea for you and that you should educate yourself as much as possible about weight training because it is the single best way to improve your body composition.