[quote]domcib wrote:
producing a high level of strength.
can this be used for the “weak movement” in the 10 day cycle?
in other words, since my squat is by far the weakest link, can this 4 layer squat pattern be used on squat days in the current 10 day cycle?[/quote]
Finally one who understand how I work! YES… the quadruple layer approach doesn’t have to be its own program (although it can). TRAINING FOR PERFORMANCE IS ABOUT FIXING WEAKNESSES. And the quadruple layer approach is one of the best way to do that.
So the way I see this is the following: the “regular” layer (ramp, cluster, HDL) works mostly on movement strength and movement specific work capacity (the density layer) via incomplete rest. The focus is on improving strength but also improving resilience.
The quad layer works on different attributes or strength qualities of a movement at the same time, with less emphasis on strength resilience/density training–I see straight sets listed here rather than clusters.
Does this sound about right? From what I read it is looking like a good transition from a phase of “regular” HDL layers once strength resilience/ movement work capacity has been pushed up, or for a specific really weak lift (such as domcib posted). Is this about how right?
Now that each quad layer consists of slightly different variations of each exercise or different exercises completely, how does this effect the frequency at which a workout can be completed in a weekly cycle?
I currently follow a push, pull, leg, push, pull split and was wondering would it be ok to replace each of my pull days with the deadlift quad layer you described and remove the leg day (replace with ring front lever work) in the middle to shift focus to my deadlift strength and overall back thickness?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
SGHP from hang
Movement strength: ramping to 2 or 1 RM
Positional strength: double pause pull (in the hip crease, then at the knee, chest up, lats contracted, for 2 seconds) 3-4 sets of 3 reps
Explosive strength: Snatch-grip jump from the hang position with 50% of max high pull 4-5 sets of 3 reps
Muscle strength: Bottom-half romanian deadlift pump reps (from the lowest position you can take to the position where your torso is about 45 degrees) for 3 sets of 8-10 reps
[/quote]
Would you be so kind as to explain your thinking behind the exercise choice on the Muscle Strength Layer for the HANG SGHP. As recommended by you the high pull is performed from blocks, pins, or the hang never from the floor so why train the first pull? Wouldn’t a Max Pump or Isometric Hold be better for this Muscle Strength Layer?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
SGHP from hang
Movement strength: ramping to 2 or 1 RM
Positional strength: double pause pull (in the hip crease, then at the knee, chest up, lats contracted, for 2 seconds) 3-4 sets of 3 reps
Explosive strength: Snatch-grip jump from the hang position with 50% of max high pull 4-5 sets of 3 reps
Muscle strength: Bottom-half romanian deadlift pump reps (from the lowest position you can take to the position where your torso is about 45 degrees) for 3 sets of 8-10 reps
[/quote]
Would you be so kind as to explain your thinking behind the exercise choice on the Muscle Strength Layer for the HANG SGHP. As recommended by you the high pull is performed from blocks, pins, or the hang never from the floor so why train the first pull? Wouldn’t a Max Pump or Isometric Hold be better for this Muscle Strength Layer?[/quote]
Snatch pulls can be done from the floor. They are more technical which is why I do not have beginners do them from the floor. I do them often from the floor myself.
Romanian deadlifts rarely go down all the way to the floor, unless you are very flexibly… most of the time the bottom position is about mid-shins or just under the knees.
Finally the purpose of the muscle strength exercise is to build-up a certain muscle group, not to copy a specific exercise.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
SGHP from hang
Movement strength: ramping to 2 or 1 RM
Positional strength: double pause pull (in the hip crease, then at the knee, chest up, lats contracted, for 2 seconds) 3-4 sets of 3 reps
Explosive strength: Snatch-grip jump from the hang position with 50% of max high pull 4-5 sets of 3 reps
Muscle strength: Bottom-half romanian deadlift pump reps (from the lowest position you can take to the position where your torso is about 45 degrees) for 3 sets of 8-10 reps
[/quote]
Would you be so kind as to explain your thinking behind the exercise choice on the Muscle Strength Layer for the HANG SGHP. As recommended by you the high pull is performed from blocks, pins, or the hang never from the floor so why train the first pull? Wouldn’t a Max Pump or Isometric Hold be better for this Muscle Strength Layer?[/quote]
BTW I never recommended doing high pulls from pins. Actually I recommended AGAINST doing them from pins many times. I’m really getting pretty sick of people reading what they want to read when I give away some info.
My apologies… the pins just slipped into the list I should have and meant to type “benches” my mistake. I know you have warned against pulling from pins for various reasons especially crushed fingers and improper grip width due to pins being in the way. Nonetheless, I sincerely appreciate your response to my question as I was curious to understand your train of thought behind this new layering.
For the Muscle Snatch would the following be a possible Quadruple Strength Layering scheme?
MOVEMENT STRENGTH
Max Ramp Muscle Snatch from the Floor (2RM or 1RM)
POSITIONAL STRENGTH
Double Pause Hang Muscle Snatch (2-Second Pause at Hip then at the Knees; 3-4 Sets of 3 Reps) or…
Double Pause Hang Muscle Snatch (2-Seconds Pause at the Knees and with the barbell overhead, behind the ears, chest and head pushed forward; 3-4 Sets of 3 Reps)
EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH
Hang or High Hang High Pull (Pulling up to Mouth or Eye-Level; 4-5 Sets of 3 Reps @ 50% High Pull 1RM)
MUSCLE STRENGTH
Top Half Military Press pump reps (only doing the movement from the top of the head to the lockout behind the ears, slow down, fast up) 3 sets of 8-10 reps
All layers using the same muscle snatch grip width.
It may be a weird question, but when you say double pause pull in high pull positional strength, is it a snatch pull, then stop at hip crease for 2 sec, then at the knee for 2 sec and a snatch pull again?
What load do you recommend for the positional strength layer?[/quote]
I guess a good way to get a good idea for the load is to see what weight your form starts to break down during the Max Ramp, then use a percentage of that weight as your working weight. Btw CT could the positional strength layer be done everyday as some sort of HSFW to practice good technique & posture during a lift?
What load do you recommend for the positional strength layer?[/quote]
I guess a good way to get a good idea for the load is to see what weight your form starts to break down during the Max Ramp, then use a percentage of that weight as your working weight. Btw CT could the positional strength layer be done everyday as some sort of HSFW to practice good technique & posture during a lift?[/quote]
Yes, I was thinking along the same line to work on weaknesses in technique/form especially with the Push Press.
What load do you recommend for the positional strength layer?[/quote]
I guess a good way to get a good idea for the load is to see what weight your form starts to break down during the Max Ramp, then use a percentage of that weight as your working weight. Btw CT could the positional strength layer be done everyday as some sort of HSFW to practice good technique & posture during a lift?[/quote]
No because you still have to go as heavy as the technique will allow you to reap the benefits, which ends up being very taxing.
i did the quadruple for squats today. I must say that this is totally AWESOME! My legs were shaking on the 4th layer.
I had to do back squats instead of front squats, due to the mobility bs issues i have. I hope this is fine?
the original plan had a complex for today. my legs were shaking but i was amped, so i gave it a whirl.
here is how i had to set it up. let me know what you think of my crazy concoction
its, power clean, fr squat, rdl. the proper rack for fr squat is curremnly impossible so
i set up the rack with pins the stick out the front of the rack, and j hooks at fr squat level in front of the rack also
i grab the bar off the pins, do hang cleans
then i rack the bar on hooks and do fr squats with my arms crossed
then rack the bar, and bring it down to the pins
add weight to do the rdl’s
rerack the bar on the pins,
take the extra weight off and start all over
Snatch-Grip Jumps from the Hang = 4-5 SETS OF 3 REPS @ 50% HIGH PULL 1RM
Hang High Pulls to the Eyes = 4-5 SETS OF 3 REPS @ 50% HIGH PULL 1RM
Muscle Snatch Speed Reps = 10 x 2 @ 50% 1RM in fastest time possible
… what other exercises would you recommend for the explosive strength layer if performing the Muscle Snatch as the main movement?
Just finished my first quad-layer deadlift workout. Loved it!! Especially the deadlift pump sets at the end, hit my vmo in a way I can only compare to 1.5rep split squats. Can really see this workout hitting legs aswell.
So in true trailblazing style I am going give completing this workout 2 x week a go and will report back with how it goes.
NB: all reps will be kept explosive with no grinding.
I’m specifically focusing on pressing, both overhead and bench for my next cycle, so I used the push-press quad layer today and it was awesome. I really loved the double pause, the dip pause was awkward feeling at first, but it showed me where my form was poor in the dip, after I reset and the held the pause on each rep, I had so much more power. This is awesome.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
FRONT SQUAT
Movement strength: ramping to a 2 or 1 RM
Positional strength: double pause front squat (bottom and mid-range for 2 seconds) focusing on perfectly upright torso and chest high, 3-4 sets of 3 reps
Explosive strength: Jump squat (bar like a back squat) 4-5 set of 3 reps with 30% of max front squat
Muscle strength: bottom half front squats pump reps (only going from the bottom position to the half squat, then back down… fast up, slow down) for 3 sets of 8-10 reps
[/quote]
What about jerk drives instead of jump squats? I’m a bit reluctant when it comes to loaded jumps, especially for someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience in jumping.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
FRONT SQUAT
Movement strength: ramping to a 2 or 1 RM
Positional strength: double pause front squat (bottom and mid-range for 2 seconds) focusing on perfectly upright torso and chest high, 3-4 sets of 3 reps
Explosive strength: Jump squat (bar like a back squat) 4-5 set of 3 reps with 30% of max front squat
Muscle strength: bottom half front squats pump reps (only going from the bottom position to the half squat, then back down… fast up, slow down) for 3 sets of 8-10 reps
[/quote]
What about jerk drives instead of jump squats? I’m a bit reluctant when it comes to loaded jumps, especially for someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience in jumping.[/quote]
The jerk drive would be better suited for the push press session.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
FRONT SQUAT
Movement strength: ramping to a 2 or 1 RM
Positional strength: double pause front squat (bottom and mid-range for 2 seconds) focusing on perfectly upright torso and chest high, 3-4 sets of 3 reps
Explosive strength: Jump squat (bar like a back squat) 4-5 set of 3 reps with 30% of max front squat
Muscle strength: bottom half front squats pump reps (only going from the bottom position to the half squat, then back down… fast up, slow down) for 3 sets of 8-10 reps
[/quote]
What about jerk drives instead of jump squats? I’m a bit reluctant when it comes to loaded jumps, especially for someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience in jumping.[/quote]
The jerk drive would be better suited for the push press session.[/quote]
@CT:
I’ve been doing these on my front squat day.
The first time I tried the positional strength layer, I was shaking like a wet cat! Weakness found!
The 2nd WO, it felt much more stable and I was able to work up to 75% of my daily max.
3rd WO was today, 5lbs heavier than last time, more stability.
One thing that I’ve noticed is that my soleus are really sore!
I can get even lower in the bottom position once I work up to my daily max. Could that be the reason for the soreness? Extra ROM?