T Nation

Qs for Trump Supporters


#242

Well, I guess it turns out we were theirs old Georgie boy.

But it’s August of 08… Does the timing of the election, and lame duck status, influence 43’s ability to impose any of this?

Also is “warmongering” (43’s for lack of a better word) really killed any ability he had domestically to do shit really. Like the link said we were tied up in the ME, and no fucking way was Bush getting anything through congress, particularly with the melt down right around the corner.

(None of this is a defense or justification.)


#243

If you think Trump is compromised (you do), but nothing comes of it (say removal from office), what is your projection of events?
Russia takes over Europe? Russia controls M/E oil? US is considered not worthy any longer and loses reserve currency status? Emboldened N Korea and Iran go openly nuclear?


#244

Agreed, but in the end, I’m simply arguing all this from a preservation of the liberty angle, and why I think the semantics matter a lot more than don’t.

In short, collusion leads to a breakdown in the fabric of American life I’m not sure more than 5-8% of the population is ready for. And unknowing Patsy leads to him hanged from a light pole, but American life only riled and upset, not completely burned to the ground.

Therefore I think the rhetoric behind all this matters. We already have grown adults putting vagina hats on their heads to march for rights they haven’t and are in zero danger of not having protected. Which means people are frothing at the mouth and believing any and every odd thing being put out there right now. So collusion talk is dangerous, if if true, until it is confirmed, with hard overwhelming evidence.

This goes beyond petty “but he is a republican and needs to go” party politics. This is the type of situation that burns western civ to the ground.

Hence me ball busting. Yes it’s just a small square on a weight lifting site’s politics board, but greater points are within my purposes here.

At this point… Unless he becomes an FDR/JFK type that is about to completely change the landscape of the country (or you know actually “drain the swamp” lmfao) I don’t think they risk it. I don’t think anything as damning as you imply gets to the public, and if it does, he’s shot months before.


#245

German’s tried this twice with their military and ultimately failed, and are likely going to fail economically when the EU goes down in flames too.

I’m not sure Russian would even want to commit the forces necessary for that. Take some of it? Sure, all of it? Nah.


#246

To take it all, probably not.
Russia is in a better position than Germany was - more natural resources, nuclear threat, and not surrounded.


#247

Germany in 1939 was an unprecedented military power and revolutionized ground war once they actually started invading. Now I’ll concede that they likely would have been able to take Europe if it wasn’t Hitler having some strange unwillingness to crush Briton, his stupid attack of Russia and Italy being a complete and total amateur compared, but this isn’t an easy feat and the shear number of men needed would be hard to muster, while leaving their backside wide open for invasion.

The disruption to global markets, and sheer distance leaves China in a unique position of NOT helping them, and the ability to attack their rear, or assist in us and other’s doing so.

I don’t see the value in nuking people and areas you want to take over and pacify.

I don’t doubt they’d jump at the chance to get to the 1940 boarders they had, but I’m not sure they would push much further at this point in time.

Obviously this is all opinion and guesses, I can’t read minds or tea leaves.


#248

I don’t think they have designs on Europe other than to intimidate them while they head toward the M/E oil.
I don’t see China attacking unless Russia tries to control M/E. Let it deplete America so - South China Sea?

Of course I read that in the Bible a long time ago also. What didn’t really make much sense 2000 years ago looks quite probable in today’s world.


#249

Ah fuck I just wrote out a long answer to this and then it disappeared.

Summary: erosion of international structures created in reponse to calamities of the last century; reduced US influence around expanded/indurated spheres of Russian/Chinese influence; tip of the internal Kremlin balance of power even further away from old-guard diplomatic-aristocratic statesmen figures and toward the hard-line nuts, Soviet-style securocrats and ranting pseudoscience-peddling lunatics who think America can be (literally) beaten; conflict in the balkans. And so on.

Specifically: my biggest fear is an emboldened Georgia/Ukraine paramilitaries-followed-by-uniformed-soldiers invasion, but across the border of the Kremlin’s holy grail: a NATO member state. Catastrophe no matter what the good guys decide to do (assuming there are any good guys left).


#250

Why though? (Assuming I’m reading you right in that you think a shift from proxy wars to actual face to face wars.)

Why do that, when the proxy wars are actually making money for the war machines and Europe is buying energy?

Pure irrationality?


#251

Guys I read Trump likes to put both ketchup and mayo on his burgers and we all know what ketchup and mayo
leads to… RUSSIAN dressing.

I have read intelligence reports from a network known as F.O.O.D. that confirm this.


#252

This wouldn’t be that much of a shift, though. They use the paramilitaries and proxies to manufacture an excuse to send uniformed troops in.

Why? Neoimperial glory to distract from an economy at the tail end of years of unnecessary recession invited by Putin himself. The allure of revanchist spoils. The Kremlin view of NATO as a noose. And so on. Who knows, maybe Putin just wants to get his personal net worth up over $300 B, after which he’ll call it a career and retire to an island with his vices.


#253

Basically WWII era tactics in 2017-18…

Great.

We at least all of Europe isn’t irrupting in anti-Semitism like then.


#254

Negative!

Combined, they lead to fancy sauce.


#255

Sounds like a great match with you two. But I agree with you here–anti-capitalism and leftism go hand in hand. I can readily acknowledge problems with capitalist systems while also not wanting to go anywhere else than the system that has been responsible for lifting the most people out of dirt poverty and giving us computers, space exploration, and nanotech.


#256

Pretty much my lifelong political motto haha. Pet peeve that I just can’t stand is when people conflate “conservative” and “republican” or GoP. They shouldn’t be to blame considering the masses of media also contribute to that…but it does burn me something bad.


#257

You make a compelling case–if I could bandy about terms like that in good fun I would have a blast. I love a good natured debate, and it’s been a long time since I have been able to go vocuabulary swashbuckling. I just don’t like the fallout from the ones that turn sour!


#258

Thanks! I appreciate that. I’ve been very quite on the forum lately, too much to do. But I always come back

[tinfoil hat on]
I’ll have to see how this administration goes, but I would put much more money on Bannon actually running Trump’s show for real than DIck “I’m-the-Leftist-Dark-Lord-nightmare” Cheney running GWB’s. GWB had significant experience before stepping in no matter his mistakes.

Which is fucking terrifying. Along with his not paying attention.

Well, his forebear didn’t really think through his first big move on the Gitmo “closure”. Either way not a good precedent to set.


#259

LOL I love the Tin Foil hat. I’m not sure, only because Bannon has no experience, but clearly understands manipulation, sensationalization, how to invoke emotions and responses he wants. Trump could be the mouth piece, but I feel like his ego wouldn’t let him be easily manipulated unless he really really trusts Bannon. It is quite a weird dynamic, and then you throw Reince Priebus in there as well.

I’m also curious because Trump talked a lot about helping other communities (outside of solely White communities, which one would expect from Bannon imo). Apparently he is working with Omarosa on an executive order to help fund HBCUs (Historically Black Colleges and universities). It could be a ploy by Bannon to “give a dog a bone,” but it’s just so interesting…what a time to be alive.


#260

You got that right! Lol.

I’m both terrified and absolutely dying to see what the next 4 years has in store


#261

This is where I am, Aragorn.

Whatever the results in 4 years…good or bad…America doesn’t come out of this the same (which many felt would be the case with Clinton…)

In 4 years, we will in many measurable ways either be better off…or headed down a much darker path both Domestically and Internationally…

I don’t think that with Trump there will be any “in-between”…