T Nation

Qs for Trump Supporters


#182

Collusion to steal an Election, but not just any election, but an election in the United States, where multiple billions of dollars are spent, multiple millions of people spend months and months on end trying to dig up any ounce of dirt possible on anyone even remotely close to any candidate and spread any of that dirt to everyone on that side of the ticket… This collusion is possible when one of the parties is a flat out moron…

Right.

This meme is as bad as the “he’s a closet Muslim” stuff.

He either colluded in the biggest and most daring usurpation in known human history, or he’s a moron. Pick one. Those two things are mutually exclusive.


#183

This is a weak lefty talking point, and one the right would use on a Democrat POTUS in a heart beat. Trump likely doesn’t have businesses in the countries on the list because most of them are shithole nations with quazi functioning governments, if any at all, in war torn regions hot with general shit.

Secondly the word “ban” is a bunch of horseshit too. It’s a temporary stay on travel.

Jesus Christ.

I totally regret a shit ton of the stuff I got worked up by with Obama, because now I see how ridiculous I looked watching the left absolutely meltdown, and we’re like a month in…


#184

When a FISA warrant is granted in light of probable cause to a six-agency IC task force to investigate the “closet Muslim stuff,” you can come back and try this gibberish out. Until then it’s worthless on its face.

And you don’t even seem to have paused to so much as casually look at my point as it flew past you: There isn’t a single Russian-collusion allegation that requires any intelligence whatsoever on Trump’s part – nobody thinks he breached the DNC or figured out by which intermediaries to pass the stolen documents to the Kremlin front being run out of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. In fact, some of the allegations – e.g., the “credible,” to quote Paul Wood’s sources in the CIA, reports of his showing his little (call this an educated guess based on his taste in self-portraits) dick to a group of hookers for an audience of FSB agents – depict him to be what we know he is: a Goddamn idiot.

And yet, though it requires of him nothing more than the stupidity he’s been barking through our TVs since this fucking nightmare began, the sum of the credible allegations as they stand today is treason by another name. (Note that the fact that we’re talking about it at all vitiates your “spread any of that dirt to everyone on that side of the ticket” effort above.)

As a related aside, now I’ve seen that ludicrous pretzel you twisted yourself into in order to (try to) defend Trump’s disgusting Russo-American moral equivalence – the staple lie of Soviet/Russian propaganda for half a century – in defense of Putin, before whom he effeminately genuflects as a rule. Bizarrely, you allow that Trump was “trying to deflect to our aggressive foreign policy,” as if his impulse to petulantly defend Putin from any & all criticism by “trying to deflect” to a set of lies about what’s wrong with the United States weren’t the fucking problem to begin with.

So here you are, meeting the worst of the Left as you reach out from either end of the horseshoe: you and the Chomskyite who thinks the CIA should be disbanded cause it’s teh evil, both of you A-OK with the fact that the president’s default pose, upon hearing criticism of Putin, is to lie by slandering his own country and countrymen. A more lurid portrait of the Right’s debasement I haven’t seen yet this year.


#185

Lol. Good to see you chiming in though–Needing a break from tax season oppression there buddy?


#186

Then it isn’t collusion. Words have meanings. One can’t collude to steal the biggest election held in the world and still be a moron. It’s one or the other. Morons fail when they collude.

Then you admit he couldn’t collude to steal the election then?

We’re talking about it because you’re obsessed, lol. I baited the shit out of you and you couldn’t help but jump on the chance to scream about the ruskies and the red scare.

I defended nothing. In fact I blatantly called him out on deflecting, saying stupid things and being clumsy.

That I expect this and am not outraged by it isn’t a defense of it.

The rest of your post is therefore a complete strawman.


#187

I will say Rex Tillerson and ExXon did (do) a ton of business in Nigeria in relation to oil. Nigeria is also ~50/50 Christian/Muslim…not that that makes a big difference.


#188

Yes and no.

Work is okay, but I still need a switch to more upper level discussion than other social media sites. People are pretty level headed around here for the most part and a lot more focused on good arguments than anything except a rare facebook page etc.

I’ve really been falling out of love with the "right’ and “libertarians” and any and everyone that is a “party” loyalist lately. I just can’t do it anymore. People have completely switched sides and I just can’t.

People outraged over “I have a pen and a phone” totally cheering on their team having it now. Things like that stupid pipeline story. Kneeling at a fucking football game was national news for fucking weeks? Everyone has a company to boycott. Riots over the wrong person saying the wrong opinions.

Trump could literally do the very same shit Obama did, and each team would completely switch their opinions and talking points.

I’m disappointed in the right lately, and more than disappointed in the left. I expect nothing but garbage out of the White House (although the SCOTUS pick seems better than garbage and there appears to be some savory rumors about actions to protect the 2nd.) And even worse out of the “opposition party”.

It’s like the whole world can’t grow up past the whole “tit for tat” mentality. (No I don’t mean debating here.)

This is all relatively new for me to be honest, and coupled with some life changes recently. And why I think my post giving my opinion of how I saw a situation was seen as a defense by SMH.

I’m literally out of “outrage” to give anymore. I’m just looking for the humor in it all and trying to take a major effort to look at things from a perspective I haven’t before. Which would be NOT ultra left or right.


#189

This is an assumption. And honestly, one that makes a lot of sense given my posting history and wild tangents.

But, and this is real talk, please don’t take my utter lack of fucks left to give as being “A-OK” with anyone being a Russian (or any foreign nation honestly) apologist or sycophant.

But I will say, I don’t think we’re having any of this conversation if a) we elected Romney or b) making fun of Romney for bringing up the threat from Russia wasn’t a meme.


#190

It’s one of the reasons I continue to show up here to butt heads…most of the discussions are a couple dozen notches above the other available outlets in intellectual rigor lol. I really feel you with the disappointment in sides.

I am as well–And I keep having this Bizzaro world deja vu feeling when I hit facebook (rare now). Eight years ago I was telling all my conservative GoP friends that they sounded like absolute loons talking about Obama the commie etc etc. and getting called a closet liberal for it. Now I’m telling all my liberal democrat friends “you sound completely unhinged” when they compare Trump to Hitler in earnest…aaand getting called all sorts of leftie names for it.

I can’t do party lines. I just can’t. I’m generally conservative, I can defend my stances based on logic, and that puts me more in line with GoP than dems in most cases…but the GoP is just so fucking awful, and has no principle whatsoever either.

Welcome to the rational corner. We don’t have cookies but we have aspirin for all the headaches you’ll get. And some booze for the rest of the headaches.

PS–hope the life changes are good ones mate.


#191

I feel this way every-time my wife comes home talking about “Trump this…Trump that…” lol.


#192

You must really love your wife lol. :stuck_out_tongue:

I couldn’t deal with political discussions at home haha


#193

Hahah. High School Sweethearts. Wouldn’t trade her for anything…even if she has become a SJW in the past 3 years of our lives (we’ve only been married 1.5 years). She loves to stay up to date on this stuff. I actively engage in political discussions if only to try and see where her head is at, challenge her liberal echo chamber (she works at a woman’s college for now), and hopefully show her that I will be a successful capitalism and capitalism isn’t bad.

I feel like a lot of the leftist nonsense is accompanied by anti-capitalist sentiments…if she ain’t gonna get on the “get rich or be upper middle class…or die trying” train…then we’re not going to be together lol.

Sometimes it goes well, other times (like when I said Saudi women were oppressed via Burkas) she was upset but…she gets over it…we’ve been friends way too long lol.


#194

A longtime buddy of mine from HS and college, a Navy veteran (submariner) who has since gone back to school and gotten his MBA, posted the following simple summary during the lunacy of the election season:

“I’m a conservative, not a Republican.”

Pretty much nailed it there.


#195

You keep saying this as if repetition will transform it from garbled nonsense to compelling reasoning. It won’t. Trump – remaining exactly as stupid as he is – will have colluded with the Kremlin if he was aware of a single dollar received from them by his campaign (this being the subject of the recording that incited the directors of the CIA and FBI to put together a task force and seek a warrant in the first place). You’re pretending that it would be some kind of intellectual feat on Donald Trump’s part for Carter Page, e.g., to be sent to transact with Igor Diveykin. This is a laughable and transparent game of make-believe.

There are many more examples that are both plausible (as in: have been alleged by people of high reputation) and leave Donald Trump’s renowned idiocy intact. As I have already explained, many of them in fact rely on Trump’s being an idiot.

Or maybe you want to pretend that a person can be a subliterate buffoon but if he accepts, dull-eyed and without contributing a single ounce of the strategic thought that goes into planning such a transaction, the aid of foreign agents for whom it is their professional trade to communicate in secret (and often with dimwitted shitbags like pimps and fortune tellers), then he must possess some secret intelligence? That’s fine. I would counsel against so cheapening your concept of intelligence, but I don’t really care.

As an aside, this is the kind of addled, reductive-&-indirect-yet-supposedly-producing-hard-certainties reasoning that people use to come to facile, embarrassing conclusions all the time. Another widely-abused example, cut from the same cloth as what you’re trying here: “He is either dumb or rich, he can’t be both.” Nah, because we know by way of dispositive direct evidence that he’s both dumb and rich, and the formulation was built on a false and simplistic dichotomy – a juvenile sense of how the world must be in the first place. And so on.

I’m not interested in further exploring this illogic of yours. There is plenty actual material to discuss here, so why waste our time on specious pablum. Feel free to question the actual evidence – there’s a fuckin’ mountain of it for you – but I’m done with this becuz muh false dichotomy logic shit.


#196

[quote=“countingbeans, post:189, topic:225882”]
But, and this is real talk, please don’t take my utter lack of fucks left to give as being “A-OK” with anyone being a Russian (or any foreign nation honestly) apologist or sycophant. [/quote]

I think that’s a silly, craven way of blinding yourself to the gravity of the situation at hand – and yes, the current state of affairs is a hell of a lot more grave than at any other point in your life. You probably disagree; that’s fine, but it has no bearing on reality.


#197

You know this or speculate?

It makes no difference really.

If he were simply banning muslims, it would be on the list.

If business ties kept it off the list, what are they?


#198

Except by letting them turn on the lights, heat their house, wash their cloths, cook their food, power their cars and powering the computer you are currently using.

And the other calamitous effects?


#199


#200

Oh, it is wonderful. Calling my father/ brother “knee-jerk chomskyite loons” and them calling me a “MAGA loving Breitbarter” really improves the holiday season.

Jesus Christ, is it ever.


#201

Yes. For me, all of this. I said in another thread, I’m experiencing election fatigue with no break in sight. Good to have both of you posting a bit. I don’t think I’d seen either of you since New Years. You’ve been missed.