T Nation

Qs for Trump Supporters


#1

I really don’t want to hear from Trump opposition. I know that side and understand that side.

Help me understand the other side.

Thoughts? Support or against and why?

Working to abolish “Obama Care” with out a replacement. (Although it wouldn’t go into effect until early 2020, after the next election)

Censoring scientists?

Working to demolish the EPA?

“Muslim ban” clearly didn’t ban countries Trump has business ties to.

Trump is threatening China.

Trump is working on a bill to launch a war against Iran.

Trump has threatened to invade Mexico.

It has not even been 2 weeks.


#2

I think most Trump supporters support the idea of most his positions but not necessarily his implementation. There is a smart way to address the root of the problems you listed but the bottom line is the average person is not smart and they are the ones who vote. Anyone who is confused how people can support Trump is just overestimating how many actually support him vs a republican administration. The reason for the few that support him and all his flaws is the same reason as a few on the left support things like full on communism.


#3

Tagging @SkyzykS here. Sorry to throw your name into the ring, pal, but you seem like the guy who best fits this description from some of the PWI discussions…?


#4

I noticed how right leaning this forum is yet couldn’t think of too many big Trump supporters, even someone like Zeb is just blindly following because of the R party so even if he claimed to support Trump I don’t really count him.


#5

I don’t think that all the bad press about trump is warrented, just most of it.

While I’m a limited govenment type and therefore must disagree with nearly all of his policies there’s a side to Trump that most people pro and con are missing.

He is “Sun Tzu”-ing his way through politics in a way that defies all conventions. The man only fights where he is strong and doesn’t bother to engage where he is weak.
Strong: Illegal immigration, endless mentions
Weak: tax returns, not a word.

If you go through some concepts of The Art of War and apply it to Trump it all comes into clear focus.

  1. Detail Assesment and Planning: he spent half of what hillary did on super targeted social media ads. They worked.
  2. Deciciveness and ending engagements quickly. Trump puts out a soundbite or ridiculous tweet then moves right the hell on. No equivocating, no arguing, just done.
  3. Attack, Strategy, Alliances, Army and Cities: He switched from Dem to Rep like 2 years ago. He was the first pres candidate to openly embrace gay marriage and deportation. He went after the blue wall and took it down. His entire platform is blended purple, he took ideas from everywhere with what seemes like no rhyme or reason… but he was collecting angry disaffected voters with each position. He could care less about the popular vote. He targeted vulnerable blue states and won them.
  4. Hold your positions and don’t show weakness: Basically his whole persona. Everything is “terrific.”
  5. Weaknesses and strengths: example above.
  6. Avoiding direct conflict: mean to the NYT on twitter and cordial and polite in person.
  7. Flexibility: Never commits to outcomes. Everything is negotiable with foreign leaders and trade deals (one china policy threat).
  8. Evaluating the intentions of others: he seems to have everyones motives down in his own mind at least. He publicly assigns motives to his opponents and forces them to defend themselves.
  9. Espionage: Emails, Russia (who knows)

While most people see an arrogant man with a chemical imbalance I see a guy skating circles around the establishment (politics, media, law). It’s not about the constitution, it’s not about truth, it’s not even about Trump, it’s about winning. I think he will accomplish a chunk of his agenda before they figure out this game.

I think he truly wants the US to win and cut better deals with the rest of the world. But his methods will annoy absolutely everyone, in every party. He doesn’t care.


#6

Not so fast. Do I believe in the republican philosophy of government? Yes. Was I for Donald Trump from day one? No. I was a Marco Rubio supporter. When he left the race I was for Ted Cruz. In fact, I was for just about any one of the 16 other republican candidates other than Donald Trump. I found him crass and not a full fledged republican, more of a populist…which he is.

However, when he won the republican nomination I knew that he would be better than Hillary. I was not blinded like one particular fence rider who said she’d be better in the short and long term. Ha. Really now. Do you think Hillary would have just nominated the likes of Justice Gorsuch, a conservative, as a Supreme Court Judge? She would have loaded the court with lefties. How is that good for us in the “long term”? It isn’t. Would Hillary have a tax plan that lowers taxes on small business which creates jobs? Nope. Would Hillary enforce immigration laws? Nope. Does Hillary care about gun owners rights and the second amendment? Nope. Get the idea?

As I have maintained all along Trump was a better choice than Hillary. And even though he has only been in office not even two full weeks he has not yet disappointed me in terms of his policies. However, as you stated, I am not at all fond of the way he does business. But, that is something I am glad to put up with given the choice which was offered.

So blind supporter? No. If I was I would not say that he is a crass, overbearing and at times profane individual who needs to bone up on various policy issues BEFORE he opens his mouth. But…better than Hillary? Oh yes…by a country mile!


#7

!!! Not Smart and Voted? WTF!

:grin:

I’ll have to get back to it in a little while. I’m in the midst of an argument over voltage drop in welding systems on another forum.

Fucker tried hittin me with ohms law. He’s getting owned!


#8

Giggling like a schoolgirl reading a passed note.
Damn. You can take them out of the Philly, but ,


#9

Thanks people!

See you guys at the gym :smiley:


#10

LOL, realized after I posted that I left the end of that phrase still hanging around…

On a more sincere note, the reason I tagged you is that, a few times, you’ve articulated some reasons why you like (some of) Trump’s ideas while also keeping his limitations in perspective.

Frankly, even when I’ve disagreed with your conclusion, I can still walk away appreciating the logic that went into your argument(s).


#11

Brilliant


#12

Read it. Nope. This reminds me when the Obama supporters kept swooning that their man was playing “four dimensional chess.”

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting” - Trump’s entire game is the opposite. He starts all kinds of unnecessary fights with all kinds of unnecessary people. He has no discipline, he jumps at every provocation, real and imagined, wasting enormous capital and time, and as a result is always putting strains on valuable relationships.


#13

So Sun Tzu never fought any battles? Just outmanuvered opponents? When you made that observation my first thought was “so Trump took what he could use and missed the overarching lesson of the text.” That sounds exactly like something he would do.

I’m not saying Trump is some master tactician, I don’t even like the guy. He acts childish far too often. But underestimating him hasn’t worked so far.

Just one example: Romney was by far the Reps best chance at offering a conciliatory candidate that the progressive press wouldn’t evicerate and maybe pull some Democrat voters. He couldn’t survive the 47% comment or the binders full of women gaff. Do I even need to list Trump’s gaffs? “Grab her by the pussy”, “I could shoot someone”, to list all of them would take T-Nation’s server down.

Trump isn’t half as good as HE thinks he is. But he’s smarter than his opponents give him credit for. Did he cheat to win? Probably. Last time I checked Belichik has 4 rings and doesn’t care about his image either.


#14

Hillary cheated and lost. She had the entire DNC behind her, given certain debate questions in advance. She was even given super delegates. Of course she did win the primary. But, she had a tough time in the general election even with the left wing media in her hip pocket.


#15

I agree with a number of your points, but I think your description points to the better explanation that Trump succeeded despite his actions, not because if them. It certainly wasn’t some intentional strategy in Sun-Tzu-esque fashion - it was a stumbling, drunken sprint to the finish line against a uniquely awful opponent.

Hell, even on election night Team Trump didn’t think he would win.

To Trump’s credit, he tapped into a very legitimate populist anger (not all of it the bad kind of populism, either). In fact, I read somewhere that a Democratic insider said that had Trump ran for the Democratic nomination on his populist theme that he’d have beaten Hillary for the nomination. He deserves credit for pouncing on that when others completely missed it.

Some of that was just accidental on his part, if we’re all honest, but credit where credit is due.


#16

This, though, deserves a rebuttal. If he did, that isn’t anything we should be ok with.


#17

Interesting alternate-reality question, IMO.


#18

Politicians lie, cheat, imbezzle, oppress, occaisionally murder etc… this is a fundamental law of nature. People with political power over others always abuse that power, every time. It’s the degree of abuse that determines whether people will put up with it.

If he did it I hope they can prove it and prosecute him. I won’t lose any sleep over it either way. The law is only for the little people after all.


#19

Guys, don’t mind the naysayer. He just hasn’t done The Procedure yet.

Here you go, TB. Lots of advice here that will help you let go of that unseemly notion that you ought not to shrug dull-eyed at what was “probably” a joint Trump-Putin scheme to cheat in the election:

PS: the irony, the world-rending irony of the name of the franchise used above as (incomprehensible) justification for not really caring about what happened in the 2016 election.


#20

You mean the “Patriots”? You do realize that the “founding fathers” were TRAITORS right? They were British subjects who didn’t like their treatment as subjects. Had they lost the war they would have all been hung. History would remember them as “the colonist insurrection of 1776” or some such. Talk about irony.

The only thing that made them “Patriots” was that they won. Winning changes everything.

Of course Trump conspiring with Putin would be the largest American scandal OF ALL TIME and cause a crazy constitutional crisis and possibly civil war if it went really sideways. The problem is you need to PROVE it. With Trump installing his own FBI, CIA etc… chiefs I don’t see how that happens.