Q for the Martial Arts Guys

The list of effective martial arts is a pretty short list:

Grappling Based Martial Arts
Judo
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Sambo
Catch Wrestling
Greco-Roman Wrestling
Freestyle/Folkstyle Wrestling

Striking Based Martial Arts
Boxing
Kickboxing
Muay Thai/Burmese Boxing
Kyukashin Karate
San Shou/Sanda
Savate

If you are taking other martial arts because you enjoy them, then by all means take them. But if you are taking a martial art for actual fighting ability, you should choose from the above list. To be well rounded, you need at least one from each column. To be an MMA fighter… well, that’s another story altogether…

I don’t see where I said that. Please show me.

What I said was that Royce didn’t face a top striker. He faced some strikers. Not top level strikers. What the outcome would have been if he did I don’t know. But he sure didn’t face any TOP LEVEL strikers.

Oh, and yes a top level striker CAN defeat a top jiu-jitsu practitioner it is just very unlikely.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Are you saying a top striker without grappling skills can defeat a top jiu jitsu practicioner? This debate has been settled long ago. BTW, how was your last meeting of the Flat Earth Society?

supermonkey wrote:
Also Royce didn’t face any top strikers in UFC 1.

[/quote]

Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.

The school has a quarterly “theme” and each theme requires a purchase of equipment. If we buy all the equipment required for the whole year it’s 280 bucks. More if we buy it as needed.

The instructor works great with the kids and prioritises character development and self discipline. These are big pluses for me. The negative for me, other than cost, is the lengthly commitment. It pretty much precludes getting him involved in gymnastics, which, based on my son’s personallity, he would really like. It also will make life very busy when he gets involved in baseball & soccer etc in the warmer months.

As of right now I’m leaning toward not doing it, but still undecided. On Monday I’m going to watch one of the 4-6 year old classes to help make up my mind. My son, by the way, likes it quite a bit.

Winning the UFC is pretty irrelevant to this guy’s question about where to send his kid. We don’t even know if the kid is going to like MA, much less turn pro.

For young kids, the teacher’s personality and school atmosphere are the important thing. Children need first and foremost a fun physical activity for health and happiness. There’s plenty of time later if the kid wants to get deeper into fighting.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.
[/quote]

HUGE red flags.

Sounds like you will be paying for daycare. If you want to do that I am sure you can find a place that won’t make you sign a contract like that.

I still say you should look for a place that teaches Judo.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.

The school has a quarterly “theme” and each theme requires a purchase of equipment. If we buy all the equipment required for the whole year it’s 280 bucks. More if we buy it as needed.

The instructor works great with the kids and prioritises character development and self discipline. These are big pluses for me. The negative for me, other than cost, is the lengthly commitment. It pretty much precludes getting him involved in gymnastics, which, based on my son’s personallity, he would really like. It also will make life very busy when he gets involved in baseball & soccer etc in the warmer months.

As of right now I’m leaning toward not doing it, but still undecided. On Monday I’m going to watch one of the 4-6 year old classes to help make up my mind. My son, by the way, likes it quite a bit.[/quote]

I’d look for another school if I were you. I’ve been doing martial arts for 15 years and have never paid even remotely that much for a school. As I said yesterday, be wary of schools requiring contracts (I’ve never even heard of a school charging a finance fee. Are you paying for karate lessons or buying a used car?).

Just for comparison’s sake, there’s a school/gym in my town, 10,000sq feet, full boxing ring, full gym, all the equipment you could ever ask for, classes in boxing, BJJ, Krav Maga, and other guest classes regularly, and pro trainers, and they only charge 75 bucks a month for complete and total access to all classes and equipment whenever you want. There’s really no need to spend 100 bucks a month on a child’s martial arts class.

As far as the themed equipment thing goes, it’s bullshit. At that young an age students should really be concentrating on learning how to use their bodies and increasing basic motor skills, not swinging weapons around or sparring in full gear.

I’m sure your son is enjoying himself, but I’d really consider looking around for a better school if I were you. Check out martialartsplanet.com, there’s a lot of great people on that forum, maybe someone from your area who can recommend a good school.

Good luck,
Jay

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Just for comparison’s sake, there’s a school/gym in my town, 10,000sq feet, full boxing ring, full gym, all the equipment you could ever ask for, classes in boxing, BJJ, Krav Maga, and other guest classes regularly, and pro trainers, and they only charge 75 bucks a month for complete and total access to all classes and equipment whenever you want.[/quote]

Wow, that’s fuckin awesome. Where do you live?

[quote]supermonkey wrote:
on edge wrote:
Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.

HUGE red flags.

Sounds like you will be paying for daycare. If you want to do that I am sure you can find a place that won’t make you sign a contract like that.

I still say you should look for a place that teaches Judo.[/quote]

It’s not daycare. Classes are a half hour and we would go 2-4 times per week. The Judo places are kind of far. Convenience is another key factor for me.

[quote]alownage wrote:
m0dd3r wrote:
Just for comparison’s sake, there’s a school/gym in my town, 10,000sq feet, full boxing ring, full gym, all the equipment you could ever ask for, classes in boxing, BJJ, Krav Maga, and other guest classes regularly, and pro trainers, and they only charge 75 bucks a month for complete and total access to all classes and equipment whenever you want.

Wow, that’s fuckin awesome. Where do you live?
[/quote]

RI, the place is called battleground.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Hate to sound harsh, but…

Is there a jiu jitsu school nearby? If so, don’t waste your son’s time or your money on karate. If not, then disregard my comments, as martial arts training is good for kids. But if you have options, go with jiu jitsu.

on edge wrote:
I took my young son to a introductory lesson on Monday night. Tomorrow night he goes for his second intro lesson. The instructor asked me to bring my wife to discuss the plans they have at this second meeting.

Since he sked me to bring my wife, I take that as code for “the programs are REALLY expensive and your going to want to talk about it”. On one hand I don’t want to break the bank for my son to have Karate lessons, on the other hand I was really pleased with what I saw in the first lesson. The instructor was terrific with my son. In a very positive way he was instilling discipline and self control and I don’t know what kind of price I can put on that.

So, my question is, can you bargan for lower rates at a Karate school the way you can at the typical fitness gym or is it a take it or leave it deal? I’ll probably pay the full price if I need too, but I’d like to get it reduced if that the way they opperate.

[/quote]

Another “MY MARTIAL ART IS BETTER THAN YOURS” kid, how sad.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
As far as the themed equipment thing goes, it’s bullshit. At that young an age students should really be concentrating on learning how to use their bodies and increasing basic motor skills, not swinging weapons around or sparring in full gear.

I’m sure your son is enjoying himself, but I’d really consider looking around for a better school if I were you. Check out martialartsplanet.com, there’s a lot of great people on that forum, maybe someone from your area who can recommend a good school.

Good luck,
Jay[/quote]

The adult in me agrees with you. The num-chucks (sp?) and swords are silly as far as learning basic self defence. I do see how those “tools” will keep the kids interested. My kid freaking loves weapons.

I am going to look at some other places. I found another one close by. We had one an easy walk from our house. I thought they went out of business, but now I’ve learned they just moved a little further away.

I’d post your question on a martial arts forum. What you’re describing to me sounds like a mc-dojo*/creche. When it comes to martial arts schools, ‘expensive’ rarely equals ‘good’. In fact, it’s often the other way around. Annual membership commitments, high fees, a funny feeling you could kick the snot out of all their blackbelts are all indications of a poor school. Just warning you because in the US (apparently), Karate is the worst offender for this kind of school.

*where you just fork out loads of money in return for some different coloured belts & certificates and are a black-belt in three years or less. At some point in the future you find yourself in a fight and have your ass handed to you on a plate.

[quote]t-ha wrote:
I’d post your question on a martial arts forum. What you’re describing to me sounds like a mc-dojo*/creche. When it comes to martial arts schools, ‘expensive’ rarely equals ‘good’. In fact, it’s often the other way around. Annual membership commitments, high fees, a funny feeling you could kick the snot out of all their blackbelts are all indications of a poor school. Just warning you because in the US (apparently), Karate is the worst offender for this kind of school.

*where you just fork out loads of money in return for some different coloured belts & certificates and are a black-belt in three years or less. At some point in the future you find yourself in a fight and have your ass handed to you on a plate.

[/quote]

Good advice. Bullshido would be a good martial arts forum to check out.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.
[/quote]

He is trying to fleece you. Stay away.

I have a black belt in tae kwon do, I wrestled in high school for four years, and I recently tried Brazilian ju-jitsu. I also have 3 sons, ages 9,6, and 2.

Based on my background, this is what I recommend:

  1. Judo and ju-jitsu are great martial arts, but not for everyone. Just because they win UFC fights doesn’t mean that they’re the best choice for your kid (although he may end up loving them). The kids I know who stuck with tae kwon do through their teen years showed both confidence and plenty of fighting ability. I’m not dogging the ground sports - after all, I wrestled for years - I’m just saying be open to karate and TKD.

  2. Have you tried your local YMCA? The Y in my area has had several quality instructors that have been there for years, and they have a succesful and very inexpensive program.

  3. Did you ask about testing fees? TDK and karate schools are notorious for charging TONS of money for each test, the more per test the higher you go. I’ve heard of black belt testing fees as high as $800…(no, I’m not joking).

  4. My final recommendation is if you truly like the school, then do a 6-month contract. Don’t tell your son it’s six months, instead just bring him on a regular basis. At the end of 6 months, you should have a good idea if he likes it or not. No sense paying for a year up front, DON’T do that!

Good luck!

I have a black belt in tae kwon do, I wrestled in high school for four years, and I recently tried Brazilian ju-jitsu. I also have 3 sons, ages 9,6, and 2.

Based on my background, this is what I recommend:

  1. Judo and ju-jitsu are great martial arts, but not for everyone. Just because they win UFC fights doesn’t mean that they’re the best choice for your kid (although he may end up loving them). The kids I know who stuck with tae kwon do through their teen years showed both confidence and plenty of fighting ability. I’m not dogging the ground sports - after all, I wrestled for years - I’m just saying be open to karate and TKD.

  2. Have you tried your local YMCA? The Y in my area has had several quality instructors that have been there for years, and they have a succesful and very inexpensive program.

  3. Did you ask about testing fees? TDK and karate schools are notorious for charging TONS of money for each test, the more per test the higher you go. I’ve heard of black belt testing fees as high as $800…(no, I’m not joking).

  4. My final recommendation is if you truly like the school, then do a 6-month contract. Don’t tell your son it’s six months, instead just bring him on a regular basis. At the end of 6 months, you should have a good idea if he likes it or not. No sense paying for a year up front, DON’T do that!

Good luck!

Personally I wouldn’t listen to half of the feedback these guys have given you. I’ve run a professional dojo for the last 8 years and WTF does it matter if your son is studing something that will teach him to “kick ass”. That’s ridiculous. How many fights have you been in over the years? Most of us I’d say very few. And in the off chance he does I don’t give a hoot what he’s studied, if he can’t control his emotions (fear, anger) he won’t be able to fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

Some things that were said that are worth listening to is that it is difficult to find a good dojo, but it sounds like you did find one.

The AVERAGE tuition across the country is $115.00 a month. That includes the little backwoods dojos that teach for peanuts and the big ass mega dojo’s that whack you for $249 (yes $249).

The one year agreement is not uncommon although I don’t like it or use it. Part of the reason for a one year agreement is because some many parents don’t want to be a parent. The first time Jr. says “I don’t want to do karate anymore” the parent is a pansy and instead of stepping up to the plate and saying “well Jr. we signed up for this and you have to at least stick with it for another month” they just stop showing up because they don’t have the berries to pick up the phone and call the instructor.

Lastly the theme’s sound like it is just what you thought it was, it’s a motivational tool to keep them interested, and of course something else to generate money.

Take your time, check out some schools and see what school is going to be the most beneficial for your child.

Oh, yeah, try to see past most of these replies. It sounds like a redneck convention.

FatSensei

I too have an extensive MA background, various disciplines. I am firm believer in the concept of doing what you enjoy doing (or in this case your son). Ignore that “which is better” arguements. Most of us are never going to see real combat (if he does, just being “in shape” and aware, will help more than anything), or sport combat. If your son decides he wants to do sport combat, he can make the choice and steer his own training that way. In the mean time, he is a kid, teaching him basic discipline, mind / body awareness, strength and flexibility etc are where it is at. To that end, find a place he and you and your wife are comfortable having him train and let that be that. In that sense gymnastics are just as good as any martial art, if you can’t swing both.

I have a black belt in TKD from one of the founders of the World Tae Kwon Do federation. TKD may not be the best thing in the mma ring, or the best singular art for the street, but it sure did make me a better, more well rounded kid. Honesty, Integrity, Preserverance, Self Control and Indomitable Spirit. I am sure any TKD practitioner knows those 5 tennets, you can’t argue that they aren’t good things to teach a child.

Lastly, my most recent ninjistu school was $10 a class, less the more you came and payment was on the honor system. I know more than a few students who didn’t pay for months, they were welcomed to every class with open arms. We’d train afterhours in an akido studio who gave us cheap rent, and we’d find parks on the weekends. If money is the deciding factor, just know that there are honest teachers, good teachers spreading their art for next to nothing all over. You just have to find them.

Good luck in your search and your sons future training.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.

The school has a quarterly “theme” and each theme requires a purchase of equipment. If we buy all the equipment required for the whole year it’s 280 bucks. More if we buy it as needed.

The instructor works great with the kids and prioritises character development and self discipline. These are big pluses for me. The negative for me, other than cost, is the lengthly commitment. It pretty much precludes getting him involved in gymnastics, which, based on my son’s personallity, he would really like. It also will make life very busy when he gets involved in baseball & soccer etc in the warmer months.

As of right now I’m leaning toward not doing it, but still undecided. On Monday I’m going to watch one of the 4-6 year old classes to help make up my mind. My son, by the way, likes it quite a bit.[/quote]

Run away, run away.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Hey guys, I got the sales pitch last night, it’s pretty darn expensive and a big commitment. It’s basically 100 per month with a 10% finance charge and a 100 dollar enrollment fee for a one year membership. If we pay the full 1200 up front, the finance charge and the enrollment fee are dropped.

The school has a quarterly “theme” and each theme requires a purchase of equipment. If we buy all the equipment required for the whole year it’s 280 bucks. More if we buy it as needed.

The instructor works great with the kids and prioritises character development and self discipline. These are big pluses for me. The negative for me, other than cost, is the lengthly commitment. It pretty much precludes getting him involved in gymnastics, which, based on my son’s personallity, he would really like. It also will make life very busy when he gets involved in baseball & soccer etc in the warmer months.

As of right now I’m leaning toward not doing it, but still undecided. On Monday I’m going to watch one of the 4-6 year old classes to help make up my mind. My son, by the way, likes it quite a bit.[/quote]

Hi on edge,

Honestly $100 per month sounds a little steep. What are the instructor’s qualifications/justifications for charging such high prices?

I trained with some martial artists who were as qualified as any out there, had decades of experience teaching, and were very big into character development and they only charged around $50-$60 per month.

Also, if your son really wants to get into gymnastics, then I say definetely go for it. If anything gymnastics will only help him with his martial arts (now, or later on down the road). But, you really shouldn’t have to commit to only 1 at this point in his life (unless of course the financial situation dictates that you do).

My suggestion is to keep looking. If you wind up deciding that this is the best school available, and he still really wants to do it, then you can choose to join then. The school will still be there (if it isn’t then it was not a good school anyway).

Good luck and good training,

Sentoguy