T Nation

Q for David Barr

Let me start off by saying that I think that David Barr is one of the most underrated T-Mag contributors; he definitely seems to have a good knowledge of the lit. Consequentially, DB, I’d love to pick your brain.

I’ve got a question, but first here are some of DBmuscle?s words:

“Here’s another valuable tip: the post-workout nutrient window for muscle protein synthesis will last at least 24 hours (Tipton et al., 2003), so another serving* when you’re fasted (i.e. the first meal of the day) will most likely elicit the same exaggerated effect of stimulating protein synthesis!”

 *referring to another serving of Surge

“Generally speaking, the first protein meal after waking is the only real time to stimulate protein synthesis using food (nocturnal feedings aside), the rest of our meals are mostly anticatabolic. I’d have the protein first with some simple carbs*, then eat a real meal a short while later.”

     *a surge-like meal?

“The best time to take BCAA’s is when serum amino acid levels are low*. This will ensure an increase in protein synthesis. Don’t forget that you need the other aminos to actually build the protein from.”

 *such as after an overnight fast?

My question: DB, could you fully articulate your reasoning for consuming a surge-like meal first thing after waking? I’m not completely clear on why this is a good idea. Also, I’d love to see what you eat (or you suggest one eat) each day; just a general meal plan.

BTW, you also posted the following.

“According to the scientific literature the windows are 1h (and decreases thereafter) for carbs 48 hours for protein metabolism”

The first quote on this thread seems to contradict with this statement. What’s up with that?


Bob, I have to start off by saying WOW. It’s great to know that people read the articles and apply the info!

Having a protein shake first thing in the morning is based on the fact that all the studies demonstrating the amino acid induced stimulation of protein synthesis done in our lab (before I got here) used subjects in the fasting state. Even if we feed nocturnally, our waking blood amino acid levels will be relatively low, and a rapid increase in these levels will stimulate protein synthesis more than a solid meal -keep in mind that increasing blood amino acid levels will stimulate protein synthesis whether or not people workout. If we’ve worked out within the past 24 hours, this effect will only be further enhanced.
It’s just a scientifically based theory, not dogma.:slight_smile:

As for your final question…
The post workout nutrient window for carbs is far different than that for protein, even though we have tended to group them together in the past. The 24-hour window for protein is the minimum window duration. The exact 48 hour comment can only be attributed to the fact that I was up at 4AM for a study that day.:slight_smile:

Great questions Bob, hope this helps answer them!


There will be no protein synthesis from the whey protein. That’s a joke!- The whey will be reduced to glucose by the liver via gluconeogenesis.

Loopy, you’re a valuable member of this forum, which is why I’m surprised at your insistance on contradicting basic concepts that are supported by the scientific literature (the BCAA thread being the other example). I think you’d do well to read both the articles, and the references that support these concepts, prior to commenting.

If you have questions or novel ideas about the literature then we’d all love to discuss it. After all, that’s what we’re here for!:slight_smile: