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PWO Shake With Water vs. Milk

It has been suggested, John Berardi among others, to drink the pwo shake (whey, dextrose, malto), diluted in water - around 1l of water to 65g of carbs.

I have been using skim milk. For one, it tastes much better. I have been using 1cup of milk to about 65g of carbs and 35g of protein. I add around 5g of L-glutamine peptite in there as well.

I guess the reason behind water is that it won’t slow down the absorption and will hydrate your body as well.

Any problems with what I’m doing now? Should I change something?

Thanks.

Milk will slow down absorption which for post workout you don’t want that. You want the quick insulin response and kick you get without the milk. For instance using milk with Surge would be incorrect it should be water.

D

I’d agree with the previous responders, BUT, drinking your PWO shake with milk is better than nothing.

If you’re a wuss and can’t drink the PWO shake in it’s true form, go ahead and add milk. It’s not the best, but it’s better than nothing.

Heck, skim milk isn’t a bad PWO by itself if you’re a bit short on cash or ran out of PWO. (I can find milk at most convience stores, not so with Surge!)

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Milk will slow down absorption which for post workout you don’t want that. You want the quick insulin response and kick you get without the milk. For instance using milk with Surge would be incorrect it should be water.

D [/quote]

I take my Surge with water, but I thought milk gave an insulin response?

[quote]Revo09 wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Milk will slow down absorption which for post workout you don’t want that. You want the quick insulin response and kick you get without the milk. For instance using milk with Surge would be incorrect it should be water.

D

I take my Surge with water, but I thought milk gave an insulin response?[/quote]

The slow digesting casein protein will hinder the absorption even though the carbs from milk are eliciting a response. For the quick insulin action of Surge it has the right ratio of protein, bcaa’s, and carbs, adding milk interferes with the process.

D

[quote]Revo09 wrote:

I take my Surge with water, but I thought milk gave an insulin response?[/quote]

It does. Lactose is a HIGH GI sugar. However, Surge is even higher than milk, and milk is a slower protein (i.e. it absorbs slowly)

Thus, milk is good as a PWO drink, but Surge ( or other PWO shake ) is best.

[quote]falcon123 wrote:
It has been suggested, John Berardi among others, to drink the pwo shake (whey, dextrose, malto), diluted in water - around 1l of water to 65g of carbs.

I have been using skim milk. For one, it tastes much better. I have been using 1cup of milk to about 65g of carbs and 35g of protein. I add around 5g of L-glutamine peptite in there as well.

I guess the reason behind water is that it won’t slow down the absorption and will hydrate your body as well.

Any problems with what I’m doing now? Should I change something?

Thanks.[/quote]

Bottom line is it makes very little difference.

Yes–the theoretical model would support the above assertions. But we don’t live there. To my knowlege, there is no study that shows ANY supplement produces any better gains than real food. Therefor, how can we say with certainty that water is better than milk.

I would look at it this way. What is your goal? Do the extra calories from the milk help or hurt you? Then it comes down to taste and preference and … Gains wise, I see no difference.

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Revo09 wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Milk will slow down absorption which for post workout you don’t want that. You want the quick insulin response and kick you get without the milk. For instance using milk with Surge would be incorrect it should be water.

D

I take my Surge with water, but I thought milk gave an insulin response?

The slow digesting casein protein will hinder the absorption even though the carbs from milk are eliciting a response. For the quick insulin action of Surge it has the right ratio of protein, bcaa’s, and carbs, adding milk interferes with the process.

D
[/quote]

Thanks D, same to you John. Good explanations to something Ive always wondered.

Berardi always said Chocolate Milk is the second best PWO drink you can get.

You guys do realize a PWO shake is designed primarily for recovery? Which means no matter what you do, the difference between doing nothing and doing the very best is small percentage.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Bottom line is it makes very little difference.[/quote]

Thankfully there are still a couple of “voices of reason” left on the forum.

Really… whether water or milk is better.

Here’s a very apropos post:

Thanks guys. Didn’t know I had replies to the post - have not received notification e-mail and still learning to navigate through the site.

In the last couple of weeks, I have read probably close to 300 pages of various articles on nutrition, training, and the like.

I’m just trying to make sense of all this information.

For me, I’ve been adding milk because it tastes much better than water, especially when it’s diluted. I don’t use Surge, I mix all the ingredients myself - if anything, it’s much cheaper.

My goals, better recovery, lift heavier, build more mass, and reduce body fat.

I just got back into lifting weights after being off for a few years. You know the story, you get married, have kids…

So now, I have improved my diet and eating clean foods and more of them. At the same time, I have re-visited supplements to see what’s out there and what’s good to use. I think I have everything now, just trying to improve on things.

[quote]falcon123 wrote:
Thanks guys. Didn’t know I had replies to the post - have not received notification e-mail and still learning to navigate through the site.

In the last couple of weeks, I have read probably close to 300 pages of various articles on nutrition, training, and the like.

I’m just trying to make sense of all this information.

For me, I’ve been adding milk because it tastes much better than water, especially when it’s diluted. I don’t use Surge, I mix all the ingredients myself - if anything, it’s much cheaper.

My goals, better recovery, lift heavier, build more mass, and reduce body fat.

I just got back into lifting weights after being off for a few years. You know the story, you get married, have kids…

So now, I have improved my diet and eating clean foods and more of them. At the same time, I have re-visited supplements to see what’s out there and what’s good to use. I think I have everything now, just trying to improve on things. [/quote]

falcon, way back when I first started using Surge, I did the same thing as you mixing it in milk because I mixed everything in milk at that time. I also thought it tasted pretty damn good like that. :slight_smile:

I then once had the opportunity to talk to an authority at Biotest who explained the mechanism behind Surge to me and advised me to nix the milk and use water. This advice wasn’t taken lightly given the source. Now, I agree that it isn’t the end of the world and if one chooses to mix it in concrete that’s their choice.

However, in the spirit of keeping things simple ala Jason Feruggia why not keep it simple and use water just as the directions state in a simple straight forward manner.

Also, if you’re using Surge, but the goal is staying lean it’s better to nix any excess or unneeded carbs. I have gotten leaner just by making all of my shakes with the exception of my morning shake in water. If one was bulking however the opposite would be desired and milk those shakes like a dairy farmer.

D

Edit: The same priniciple for water with Surge would in my opinion apply to your formula. Try Surge.

[quote]john3103 wrote:
Revo09 wrote:

I take my Surge with water, but I thought milk gave an insulin response?

It does. Lactose is a HIGH GI sugar. However, Surge is even higher than milk, and milk is a slower protein (i.e. it absorbs slowly)

[/quote]

Lactose is NOT a high GI sugar.

Milk is a high insulin index product because of its PROTEIN, not its friking carbohydrate content.

I used to struggle with this question as well.

I found what works best, is instead of Milk, add Crushed Ice, Water, and some Low-Fat Plain Yogurt. Blend it with your PWO powder and guzzle down.

This way, you get your Acidopholous Probiotic CFU enzymes, CLA, and all the good stuff you traditionally get in Milk, except theres water in there too so it gives you that quicker insulin response.

I have been doing this for at least a month and I strongly believe this way helps.

Well, started drinking my pwo with about 1l of water. Nothing to rave about taste wise, but I like the fact that it quenches my thirst after a workout.

It’ll make NO difference.

The only difference will be the extra calories, all like 200 of them. How will people cope?!

[quote]falcon123 wrote:
It has been suggested, John Berardi among others, to drink the pwo shake (whey, dextrose, malto), diluted in water - around 1l of water to 65g of carbs.

I have been using skim milk. For one, it tastes much better. I have been using 1cup of milk to about 65g of carbs and 35g of protein. I add around 5g of L-glutamine peptite in there as well.

I guess the reason behind water is that it won’t slow down the absorption and will hydrate your body as well.

Any problems with what I’m doing now? Should I change something?

Thanks.[/quote]

For someone like me who has enough trouble getting sufficient calories in a day, I always pick milk over water. It’s basically free calories and protein.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Bottom line is it makes very little difference.

Yes–the theoretical model would support the above assertions. But we don’t live there. To my knowlege, there is no study that shows ANY supplement produces any better gains than real food. Therefor, how can we say with certainty that water is better than milk.

I would look at it this way. What is your goal? Do the extra calories from the milk help or hurt you? Then it comes down to taste and preference and … Gains wise, I see no difference.[/quote]

I wish more people thought like this.

It will add calories. While milk is 80/20 you still get the benefit from the added whey. I really don’t think it is a big deal, but that is just my opinion.

Here is my during/post workout shake. I sip it during my workout. When I am though I dump in my creatine and down what is left.

24 ounces cold water
3 scoops Surge
1 scoop of ON chocolate whey
5 grams creatine

At first I did not like the taste of Surge. After the fourth time it was better. After a month I started craving it.

Christopher