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PWO Shake, Cardio?

    Should a post workout shake be consumed before PWO cardio, or after?
   I would say if it's a 20-30 minute cardio, that would be within a 30 minute window right? But the thing I'm wondering is this, when you hit two muscle groups, the first one is getting the shake considerably later than the second muscle group. 
   So I have always passed on the post workout cardio. My train of thought is that the muscle glycogen is nice and depleted so it would be akin to morning cardio as far as accelerated fat burning if you go straight to the treadmill after the workout, but the magic window of opportunity for that pwo shake has me confused. So what's better: 
1. Don't do the cardio/ do the shake. (standard habit for me)
2. Do the shake between the two.
3. Do the cardio then the shake.

I want to get the max fat burning, so I would rather do the cardio then shake, but when you do two muscle groups, it is really pushing the "window" for that first group worked, isn't it?
    Please advise veterans.
  Thanks,   ToneBone

If you are trying to burn fat why don’t you just drink water instead of consuming all those calories?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
If you are trying to burn fat why don’t you just drink water instead of consuming all those calories?[/quote]

Zap, he has a good question. How do you know the shake contains “all those calories.” Maybe if he sticks to a Whey-only shake, with something around 100 calories, that won’t impede his fat loss. Hell, even the Surge experiment supposedly shows that with all of THOSE calories, fat loss is still not hampered.

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
If you are trying to burn fat why don’t you just drink water instead of consuming all those calories?

Zap, he has a good question. How do you know the shake contains “all those calories.” Maybe if he sticks to a Whey-only shake, with something around 100 calories, that won’t impede his fat loss. Hell, even the Surge experiment supposedly shows that with all of THOSE calories, fat loss is still not hampered. [/quote]

I just don’t buy into the logic of chugging a post workout shake if you are trying to burn fat. You are right a whey only type shake would probably be better than a mostly carb shake.

Replenishing glycogen in the muscles is well and good but if the goal is losing fat then lose the fat as a first priority.

When he gets his fat levels near where he wants them then he can start worrying about secondary issues.

This is of course assuming that his primary goal is losing fat, which he didn’t really state.

2nd what Zap says, and some BCAA’s in between the workout & cardio won’t hurt if trying to maintain muscle while dropping fat.

   Ok, Zap, look drinking water only after a workout is pretty lame. 

   I don't want to lose too much lean muscle, my diet is solid for a cutting phase right now, so I'm losing the fat already.

   Like Dhuge said it's mostly whey with the appropriate carbs which help spike your insulin so the nutrients are shuttled into the muscle cell efficiently. That's the only time I consume fast carbs during the day. I use a maltodextrin/dextrose type carb for that.

   The rest of the day my diet is very clean, that is mostly protein mixed with vegetables which works according to most of the diets here.

  I have some slow digesting carbs in the morning meal, and go veggie the rest of the day, save for the pre/post workout shake. That's all good. My question was about the cardio and its effect with or without the PWO SHAKE...on fat burning.
   PLEASE VETERANS ADVISE:
Ok I like that answer a bit better than zaps, but you can't be serious are you? You're saying no protein shake whatsoever? That sounds like a little too extreme and counterproductive to keeping muscle. Like I said guys, I AM ALREADY LOSING FAT OK? I JUST WANT TO KNOW THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED. GO BACK AND READ IT AGAIN PLEASE. 

No disrespect, it’s working for me, ( the fat loss), I am wondering about the shake before/after the cardio post workout.
Jesus…

drink it while doing cardio??? you ever thought of that??? and have lots of carbs right after the workout, not bad carbs, fast carbs, like a clycogen loader…your heart will be at 130 anyway, so you will be burning fat no matter what dude…so you’re fine…do the pwo shake while walking the treadmil incline is prefered and keep your targeted heart between 125 - 145

I would take a protein shake before the cardio, personally.

orrrrrrr…if you’re still confused and skeptical about it, then why dont you sip whey protein isolate during your entire workout?

that way you can reserve muscle and hit the cardio after but after you get done with whey protein isolate that should be the time you finish your workout, annnnnd, hit 30-45 min cardio and have a meal right after that, chicken breast / brown rice and brocoli and have another shake, I prefer a blend of protein like the dorian yates product…has 7 blends of protein time released take it b4 bed…

Here’s what I do when doing cardio (Something that burns a significant amount of calories 300-500) and it works fine for fat loss, I make a 300-500 calorie shake containing Whey/Fruit/Skimmed Milk/(Aminos if you can afford) this allows me to replenish glycogen stores via the liver mainly as fruit goes into the liver which can hold 80-100grams of carbs, the protein goes to muscle repair as does the milk.

Now we all know that after cardio there is a window of opportunity, obviously not in the same way as after a weights session but your metabolism is significantly revved and your body is ready to be replenished.

If fat loss is your main goal I would still have a shake as I prescribed above but eat Protein and Fat meals for the rest of the day.

I also try to schedule my cardio in place of a meal. For instance if I have lunch at 1PM I will do my cardio at about 3.30PM or 4PM it usually lasts just over 30 mins so I have my post cardio shake(Slammed when I get back home, dang it hits the spot!!!) in place of a normal P+F meal then I eat again at about 6-7PM this meal will contain a lean source of protein/Veg and good fat(P+F).

Give it a try, unless you are after extreme fat loss (Velocity diet style) I find this the best path…

ShadoW

It is definitely possible to lose fat at a decent rate while using Surge. Assuming, at least, that you are not very lean already, and trying to get shredded.

Berardi recommends BCAAs only on his Get Shredded diet, so I guess at some point, the carbs in Surge would become a hindrance (I wouldn’t know.)

If you’re just trying to get down to 8% or so, though, I don’t think it’s an issue. Personally, I can lose fat at a rate of about 1 lb/5 days for 2-3 months with minimal muscle loss on a diet including Surge.

Of course, I’ve never tried it without Surge. Maybe I’d lose fat even faster, but I might lose some muscle as well, I guess. And the quality of my workouts would really suffer, I think.

It counts as a meal, though. On Surge days I eat one less food meal.

If you have to do your cardio after your weight workout (I like to do it on non-weight training days, when possible) I’d take the Surge after the cardio.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Ok, Zap, look drinking water only after a workout is pretty lame.

…[/quote]

Lame? Do what you want but if you feel the need to drink something I would definitely go with the whey only protein drink vs a carb heavy drink.

I would drink it post cardio. I cannot see how you could drink a shake and then do any serious cardio work without seeing it come up again.

If you are happy with your progress keep doing what you are doing.

Good luck.

[quote]DTLV wrote:
It is definitely possible to lose fat at a decent rate while using Surge. Assuming, at least, that you are not very lean already, and trying to get shredded.

Berardi recommends BCAAs only on his Get Shredded diet, so I guess at some point, the carbs in Surge would become a hindrance (I wouldn’t know.)

If you’re just trying to get down to 8% or so, though, I don’t think it’s an issue. Personally, I can lose fat at a rate of about 1 lb/5 days for 2-3 months with minimal muscle loss on a diet including Surge.
…[/quote]

The guys profile says he is 15-25% BF. If he is in the upper part of that range I think he should limit all liquid calories other than maybe protein if he wants to lose fat.

He isn’t going to lose a significant amount of muscle if he doesn’t slam a PWO shake.

When I am trying to take off fat I like to get my all calories and protein in food form. I find dropping protein shakes drops my fat and doesn’t make me lose muscle.

Adding protein shakes adds both fat and muscle on me.

That is the way my body works. You may be different.

The use of BCAA’s does sound like a good idea.

I don’t use PWO shakes for anything but heavy lifting. I don’t really find them to be necessary for cardio. There is a real difference to be felt after lifting too. Not so much with cardio. I usually just go home and eat like normal.

As a third opinion in this debate, i tend to go with the PWO shake with carbs and protein. I find, as important as losing fat is, maintaining hard earned muscle is more important. I believe that a PWO with carbs and whey is crucial for maintaining muscle mass.

For myself, i drink a shake that is equal in calories as any of my other meals right after my workout, and then eat an hour and half later. E.g. I take in 1900 calories on a training day, PWO is usually 20-25g Whey + 40-50g of Carbs = 280-300 calories. 1.5 hours later I eat a regular meal (300 calories) of veggies and chicken. Hope this helps! cheers

Hey thanks for all the opinions guys. I tend to agree with what the following guys said:

Hypertrophy kid: Liked your answer, a lot of good points and ideas. Sipping during cardio sounds like a winner.

RSG: good answer too.

Shadow: good answer, my shake is very similar, whey,blueberries,and Cytocarb II. It is a combo of short,medium, and long linear chain maltodextrins with very low dextrose equivalence. Approx, 96% sugar free.

This is necessary IMO to help facilitate the uptake of the aminos into “hungry” muscle, kick starting if you will the body into favorable nitrogen retention.

DTLV: yeah my goal is to get around 8% bodyfat.

Zap: Thanks for your opinion, the bodyfat on profile is really old, was during a time I was recovering from some injuries and wasn’t able to workout for a long while. Read what I am saying about the carbs helping with the uptake of the aminos…they’re healthy, and good for that post workout window for spiking the insulin to “open the doors” to the muscle cells.

Again, thanks for all the posts guys, I think I will sip the PWO after the weights while doing the cardio like HyperTKid suggested.

I will update the bodyfat on profile, thanks for reminding me about that Zap.

Thanks to you too Glen, good points.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:


Zap: Thanks for your opinion, the bodyfat on profile is really old, was during a time I was recovering from some injuries and wasn’t able to workout for a long while. Read what I am saying about the carbs helping with the uptake of the aminos…they’re healthy, and good for that post workout window for spiking the insulin to “open the doors” to the muscle cells.

Again, thanks for all the posts guys, I think I will sip the PWO after the weights while doing the cardio like HyperTKid suggested.

I will update the bodyfat on profile, thanks for reminding me about that Zap.[/quote]

Sounds good.

 So, I gave it a go today. Did legs, squats,lunges,extensions,leg curls,calf raises. Then made my shake with whey,blueberries,cytocarb,and water. Sipped on it while doing 30 minutes treadmill. I went up a level each minute to level 15 incline, then back down a level every half minute, with about 8 minutes at zero incline at the end. Seemed to work out nice. 

It’s been about an hour or so now, and I’m having a medium size salad with a pretty big chicken breast. According to the computer on the treadmill I burned about 250 calories.

   Thanks for all the responses everyone, you guys did a nice job helping out.    ToneBone