T Nation

PWO Nutrition-Moderate Workout?

I’m doing a 4 or 5 day training split depending on the week. I’m lifting hard and heavy and making compound movements a big focus. I’m bulking. I wanted to start doing a 15-20 minute low intensity cardio warm-up/session and abs, calves, and forearms on one of my ‘off’ days. I don’t do any isolation exercises for these muscles during my normal workouts. Would I have my normal PWO shake after this workout? My normal shake is a dex/malto/whey blend. (I’m planning to buy some Surge when I run out of what I have now). I’m thinking that the answer is yes. thanks.

jsbrook, you’ve asked many questions and gotten lots of advice so far. Here’s some more. Do not do a 5day split plus a day of cardio&ab work. Work out 4 days at the most, and you’d probably be best to start off w/ 3days a week with a full-body routine. As far as doing a mini-workout for calves,abs,&forearms. Your forearms will grow the most from doing deadlifts, different pulling movements, and farmer’s walks. Doing wrist curls and other forearm work is a waste of time and will only hurt your recovery. What type of ab work will you be doing? They’ll get plenty of stimulation from overhead pressing, squatting, and other compound lifts. However, heavy standing crunches on a lat pulldown tower, spread eagle situps, and heavy side bends are good options. I really advise you to train movements that work many muscle groups and focus on the movements, and not set up a 4-5 day split(chest on monday, shoulders and arms, back, legs). Rather train the upper body on one day with a horizontal pulling movement(row), a horizontal pushing movement, and then 1-2 accessory exercises for tris,upper back, shoulders, or abs. To answer your original question, you don’t need to take a workout drink after a low-intensity cardio workout and a little ab work. Just make sure you’ve already ate before you workout, and eat a big meal when you’re done. I say big meal because you will be eating big meals all day long during your bulk

Thanks for the input vandalay. Sorry in advance for the long post! I have many questions. Are you generally against full-body splits or just for those new to lifting? I’m not really new to lifting. I have been lifting for 4 years, and have done a 3 day full-body routine for that entire time. I just have never lifted for mass before although I did put on 12 pounds of muscle mass when I first started lifting seriously 4 years ago just from being a beginner even though I was not eating properly to fuel the gain. I was a competitive distance runner up until a year and a half ago, so putting on mass and training for my sport did not go hand in hand, but I did continue to do three hard full-body workouts a week.

After that, I was doing triathlon training until I went to Australia. I continued to make strength a key component of my training as every endurance athlete should but many are ignorant of the benefits. But I am tired of endurance competition and want to put it on hold for a long time. Now my goal is to put on mass. So I have lifting experience, but I have never eaten to fuel muscle gains. Now, I am for the first time. Do you think a split would be appropriate in this case. I am still doing heavy compound lifting (squats, deadlifts, stiff-legged deadlifts, pressing, lat work). I just do isolation work for arms one day a week. Alternatively, I will pair bis with chest on a day and tris with shoulders. I realize that my forearms are worked in my compound moves and heavy pulling movements; I can certainly feel it during the movement and the next day. But this is one reason why I wanted to start training them separately one day a week as well as work on my grip. My forearm strength and grip is limiting my lifts to a degree because they give out before my large muscles do. Is it overkill to focus on them one additional day? Will this be rectified over time as they get stronger just through my other lifts?

Should I just be using straps for now? Similarly, for abs I have the same question. They are cetainly worked during my normal lifting, but I feel a strong core is important and that one extra day would be beneficial. I planned to do hanging leg raises and weighted crunches. I will also consider the suggetions you made. Calves? I don’t know. I just thought I should work them. I don’t do calf isolation exercises the day I squat, press, stiff-legged dead lifts, hamstring curls, etc… Maybe I could just add them to my leg day, but it is already intense and the thought of throwing in calf exercises on top just doesn’t sit well. I guess that’s it. It’s certainly enough in this monster post. I do feel like I’m already having gains and good results and it’s only been two weeks. Any input from you and others is much appreciated, but don’t worry about. take your time. thanks!

sorry-this probably is better suited to a diffent section, but this is where the topic turned to after vandalay’s last post.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

After that, I was doing triathlon training until I went to Australia. I continued to make strength a key component of my training as every endurance athlete should but many are ignorant of the benefits. [/quote]

Or you are ignorant to the conflicting physiological adaptations between the two. There are many studies supporting strength training in endurance athletes but there are just as many not supporting it. I incorporate strength training into my regimen but not at the level hoping to make any significant body composition changes or strength gains but mainly to preserve muscle balance and increase glycogen load.

The statement “every endurance athlete should” is quite misleading. I don’t think Kenyans do much strength training… but then again they aren’t that good in endurance disciplines.

Here is the twist:

I think this goes back to the advise, which has been suggested many times, that you begin reading. Beyond that you should understand that the world of training changes everyday so when you find what you are looking for dont stop reading. Continuing education is the difference between a T-Nation poster and civilian-nation poster.

Thanks for the reply, TriGWU. No, I’m very aware of the conflicting physiological adaptaions. I also was using strength training to preserve strength gains and maintain as much muscle as possible. I wasn’t intending or expecting to make significant body composition changes or strength gains. But this IS my CURRENT goal. I’m no longer competing and am not doing endurance training now. I’m not sure if I said that.

I will also rephrase; strength training does not necessarily have a place in the training program of every endurance athlete, but I do think it is very beneficial. I agree with you. I am continuing to read the advice and archives and learn as much as possible about the best nutrition and training to meet my new goals.

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

Or you are ignorant to the conflicting physiological adaptations between the two. There are many studies supporting strength training in endurance athletes but there are just as many not supporting it. I incorporate strength training into my regimen but not at the level hoping to make any significant body composition changes or strength gains but mainly to preserve muscle balance and increase glycogen load.

The statement “every endurance athlete should” is quite misleading. I don’t think Kenyans do much strength training… but then again they aren’t that good in endurance disciplines.

Here is the twist:

I think this goes back to the advise, which has been suggested many times, that you begin reading. Beyond that you should understand that the world of training changes everyday so when you find what you are looking for dont stop reading. Continuing education is the difference between a T-Nation poster and civilian-nation poster.[/quote]