T Nation

PWO Carbs & Fat Loss W/ High BF%


#1

This was discussed earlier in this thread:

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1496135

But didn't really come to a conclusion. For a goal of reducing body fat %, for someone on a low-carb diet with a high body fat % (20%+), is the insulin spike provided by Surge (or similar PWO) countering some of the effects of the low-carb diet? My initial thinking is this would throw you out of ketosis, which is the whole point when the goal is fat loss.

Thib's got some great stuff on body comp and in his article Refined Physique Transformation here:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1499282

He has a recommendation of less than 30g carbs for men over 20% BF. Obviously this would preclude Surge, or would at least cut it to a half dose with zero to trace carbs the rest of the day. But, for a focus on body comp., you'll want to preserve lean mass as much as possible or even increase, which would lead those PWO carbs being essential.

Anyone have an opinion on this? Better yet, anyone have any personal experience? I'm sure it's not a clear-and-cut answer, but interested to hear what others think.


#2

In your case, you'd want to have a PWO shake consisting of whey and amino acids instead of Surge (carbs).

This is what Thib suggests:

"PRE-WORKOUT (30 minutes prior)
5g glutamine
5g creatine
5g BCAA
½ scoop of whey isolate (12-16g)
DURING-WORKOUT (sip throughout)
20-40g of BCAA (the more you can afford the better)
10g of glutamine

POST-WORKOUT
20-40g of glutamine (work up progressively as some might have stomach problems with mega dosing)

10-15g leucine
1 ½ scoop of whey isolate (40-45g)"


#3

Yeah I saw that - wondering though, I'm doing Meltdown, and without fail I get a headache by the end. A couple people have said this is the body saying it needs carbs. Sure enough, I drink Surge and it goes away. Any thoughts?


#4

did you see this thread about Surge for workouts?

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1509435

also - check out a book - The Science of Nutrient Timing by John Ivy & Robert Portman about post w/o carbs and burning bodyfat and other interesting studies. Dr. Berardi is a contributor to the book as well.

for myself, if i do what i deem to be not as intensive a work out (kick-boxing and not much lifting) - i stick to BCAA's during & after workout.

when lifting is the primary focus - i definitely use Surge pre, during & post. (had to get over equating carbs with fat.)

hope this helps some.


#5

You don't at all need to be in ketosis to lose fat. And you can be quite low carb and still not be in ketosis. Even the Get Shredded Diet is not designed to bring and does not bring everyone into ketosis. You really have to be VERY low carb to get into ketosis.

I think a low to moderate carbohydrate intake will do nicely for someone with a decent amount of fat with the carbs focused on Surge after a hard workout and on fruit and oats with breakfast. It's true that the the body does a poorer job of handling insulin at higher levels of bodyfat, but you can also be much less dialed in and still lose fat steadily.


#6

its all about calories. Seriously


#7

Thanks for the link to the article lil_azn. I've been using Surge for a bit and I agree with all those testimonials: it's awesome. I feel pumped right after a workout and been less sore the next day after starting to use it.

Jsbrook: I'm not too concerned with ketosis or not, guess I really shouldn't have mentioned it. I'm in the same camp as you: generally, a low-carb diet will work.

I guess like everyone else who wants to lose fat I'm just impatient. And reading Thib's article made me wonder if there was a more effective way of doing it. I figure, if I'm putting all the other work in, why not do everything as well as I can?

I guess here's an easier question to answer for someone with more experience: for someone over 20% BF, is a 2% decrease in BF % in two weeks a pretty good rate, or is PWO carbs slowing it down?