Putting on Muscle with Absolutely No Fat

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
This is totally easy to do. I did it yesterday, in fact. LaBuff shared his secret with me.

[/quote]

Jealous!!!

[quote]jamdill wrote:
Hello all. i just cut down from close to 180 to about 160. doing so i got myself down to about 7% body fat. but i lost some considerable muscle. I need to know the absolute best way of putting a few pounds of muscle on with 0 additional fat. Diet / workout / supplements… i want to know it all. Gotta get ready for beach season!![/quote]

try carb cycling might keep the fat off. not possible to gain muscle without fat. you def screwed up your cutting plan 20 pounds is difference between looking ripped and thin.

close this close this close this close this close this

[quote]Gillium-001 wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
This is totally easy to do. I did it yesterday, in fact. LaBuff shared his secret with me.

Where is LaBuff anyway?

Yeah, seriously. He could get this guy on the road to abz worthy enough to flash at the bitches in no time.[/quote]

He’s been online, I just think he thinks there’s anybody here that’s worthy of his knowledge.

(removed)

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Folks, we should do what this guy asks for: WORK FOR NO PAY!

That is, we should take our years of experience and wisdom and apply it - by designing programs and diets - all for nothing!

If you want guidance, sign the fuck up for my online nutrition and training counseling![/quote]

I noticed you’ve made this point already on multiple threads. Why is it you think you should get paid to participate on a public online forum where it is the norm to share personal experience and knowledge for free? This is how it works on just about any forum found on the internet. Is there something you, and only you, know about public forums that none of us do?

cutting off one ball w/ a butter knife is the way to go.

[quote]Principal Weider wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Folks, we should do what this guy asks for: WORK FOR NO PAY!

That is, we should take our years of experience and wisdom and apply it - by designing programs and diets - all for nothing!

If you want guidance, sign the fuck up for my online nutrition and training counseling!

I noticed you’ve made this point already on multiple threads. Why is it you think you should get paid to participate on a public online forum where it is the norm to share personal experience and knowledge for free? This is how it works on just about any forum found on the internet. Is there something you, and only you, know about public forums that none of us do? [/quote]

First off, because the OP’s post is ridiculous.

Second, every month we get a rash of new people signing up here asking questions where it’s clear they’ve done very little, if any, research themselves or searching of these forums. If they had, they would have known that a post like this would not be taken seriously.

Third, nobody likes trolls and the original post reeks of troll.

Why is it always that people that just signed up on these forums, think they can dictate how they should operate?

[quote]AngryVader wrote:

Why is it always that people that just signed up on these forums, think they can dictate how they should operate? [/quote]

Please point us to the forum laws when you find them. Forums are inherently open so there shouldn’t be dictation one way or another. Ride that high horse fellow T-Nation member, ride.

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
AngryVader wrote:

Why is it always that people that just signed up on these forums, think they can dictate how they should operate?

Please point us to the forum laws when you find them. Forums are inherently open so there shouldn’t be dictation one way or another. Ride that high horse fellow T-Nation member, ride. [/quote]

Are you serious? What bodybuilding forum do you know of where you can simply ask for the holy grail of training with one of your first posts and expect to get serious answers?

Every forum has unwritten rules of conduct. This would be obvious to anyone that’s been here for a while. Isn’t that right, Mr. February 2009?

I notice that you only responded to my post, but didn’t provide an answer to the OP’s question. Have at it here, buddy.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
phatkins187 wrote:
AngryVader wrote:

Why is it always that people that just signed up on these forums, think they can dictate how they should operate?

Please point us to the forum laws when you find them. Forums are inherently open so there shouldn’t be dictation one way or another. Ride that high horse fellow T-Nation member, ride.

Are you serious? What bodybuilding forum do you know of where you can simply ask for the holy grail of training with one of your first posts and expect to get serious answers?

Every forum has unwritten rules of conduct. This would be obvious to anyone that’s been here for a while. Isn’t that right, Mr. February 2009?

I notice that you only responded to my post, but didn’t provide an answer to the OP’s question. Have at it here, buddy.[/quote]

Exactly…unwritten is the key word there. The OP is seeking advice because they believe this would be a good place to find it. Why wouldn’t they expect that? Some people would rather antagonize them to get their post count up.

OP: This article really put it in perspective for me:
www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/the-baseline-diet-part-1.html

I’ll echo the previous answers…nobody can build lean muscle without at least a slight increase in body fat without drugs.

Happy Vader? :slight_smile:

hey guys,

i’m new here and looking for a magic pill to make me only gain muscle, increase my cock size, get me laid, and help me win the lotto; do you know where I can get that? b/c it’s not at bb.com

[quote]B rocK wrote:
hey guys,

i’m new here and looking for a magic pill to make me only gain muscle, increase my cock size, get me laid, and help me win the lotto; do you know where I can get that? b/c it’s not at bb.com…[/quote]

B rock I’ve got just what you’re looking for. Just send me your checking account and routing number. :wink:

For the record back in January I put on 2 pounds of lean mass and lost 2% bodyfat. Calculated through 7site skinfold, using the same tester, time of day, blah blah blah. Lost a shit ton of fat in my illium and abdominal fold. Granted you’ll have to eat less than 100g of carbs, like 300g protein and 200g fat but it can work for a time. Anything can work for a time. I’m also not 200lbs so you have to take everything into consideration.

He needs some HGH and a nice supply of infants that can provide him with enough protein so as to not get fat

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
For the record back in January I put on 2 pounds of lean mass and lost 2% bodyfat. Calculated through 7site skinfold, using the same tester, time of day, blah blah blah. Lost a shit ton of fat in my illium and abdominal fold. Granted you’ll have to eat less than 100g of carbs, like 300g protein and 200g fat but it can work for a time. Anything can work for a time. I’m also not 200lbs so you have to take everything into consideration.[/quote]

You’re not even close to a bodybuilder who has reached their “genetic potential.” Building lean tissue and losing fat usually can only apply to newbies or drug users.

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
phatkins187 wrote:
AngryVader wrote:

Why is it always that people that just signed up on these forums, think they can dictate how they should operate?

Please point us to the forum laws when you find them. Forums are inherently open so there shouldn’t be dictation one way or another. Ride that high horse fellow T-Nation member, ride.

Are you serious? What bodybuilding forum do you know of where you can simply ask for the holy grail of training with one of your first posts and expect to get serious answers?

Every forum has unwritten rules of conduct. This would be obvious to anyone that’s been here for a while. Isn’t that right, Mr. February 2009?

I notice that you only responded to my post, but didn’t provide an answer to the OP’s question. Have at it here, buddy.

Exactly…unwritten is the key word there. The OP is seeking advice because they believe this would be a good place to find it. Why wouldn’t they expect that? Some people would rather antagonize them to get their post count up.

OP: This article really put it in perspective for me:
www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/the-baseline-diet-part-1.html

I’ll echo the previous answers…nobody can build lean muscle without at least a slight increase in body fat without drugs.

Happy Vader? :)[/quote]

Yes, I’m very happy now. :slight_smile:

[quote]Defekt wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
Just make sure you do it ‘by the book’

10/10 [/quote]

Holy shit. Massive win. One of the best minutes of my life.

I see ZERO fat gain as unrealistic, that, if possible, would require a perfect diet and training and probably considerable help from supplements. If I wanted to see if I could achieve that, I would hire a good trainer. But instead I am about to try my own plan to gain muscle without too much fat (as soon as I get over a sinus infection). This is my plan and the logic behind it.

Every individual has a nutrient partitioning ratio where some ingested nutrients are shuttled into muscles and some into fat, called in weight loss literature the p ratio. The body normally maintains this ratio, so each individual’s p ratio doesn’t change much over time. (It slowly gets worse over a period of decades, with overeating/underactivity, and certain medications.) So when seeking to change body comp, you’re seeking to change this ratio and get around the mechanisms your body normally uses to maintain it. You’re also trying to overcome the mechanisms that preferentially store excess calories as fat.

Key to manipulating that p ratio is to improve insulin sensitivity, that is, to increase insulin sensitivity in muscle but not fat, and then eat to match that increase. Training is what increases insulin sensitivity of muscle but not of fat; so training is the main way to improve your p ratio. But then you must take advantage of the improved ratio by raising insulin, blood sugar, and blood aminos at a time when more of those nutrients will be stored in muscle than usual. If you make the muscles hungry but don’t feed them, you’re not going to get anywhere.

I already know that Surge works well for raising insulin, blood sugar, and aminos, so I will slam a large serving of Surge following training. 45-60 minutes later, I will eat a large above-maintenance meal of beef and potatoes with minimal fat. Beef produces more insulin than other protein sources, and potatoes produce much more insulin than most other carb sources. The fat is to be kept mimimal because in the presence of carbs and insulin, fat is going to be stored as fat (after assuming a little is used for cell membranes, hormone production, etc.) I will have another larger than maintenance size meal of protein, carbs, veggies, and minimal fat 2 hours later, and see how this goes.

ZERO fat gain is hard to achieve, because even the improved PWO p-ratio is rarely/never 100:0. That is, the body rarely takes excess nutrients and shoves them ALL into muscle and NONE into fat. There are some intriguing cases, like the ones Christian Thibaudeau recently posted, where this might happen, and the body might even burn stored fat to fuel the energy needs of building new muscle, but I think you’d need an incredibly favorable hormonal environment that most people can assume they do not have.

The PWO “window” is not an open or shut thing. I imagine that it is some function where the p ratio goes from more favorable to normal, and it is probably not linear. In other words, I assume that the improved insulin sensitivity in the muscle will at first be high, but will drop rapidly at some point. If I knew what this function was, I could eat “perfectly” to take advantage of it. But I don’t know, hence I will probably over- or underuse the PWO period. Initially I would rather OVERestimate the PWO window and risk gaining a little fat. Fat gain is rapidly noticeable, especially with calipers, and can quickly be adjusted for, whereas muscle gain is slower and harder to tell if you are making progress. Therefore if you UNDERutilize the PWO window, it will be a long time before you know – a long time during which you are wasting time and effort.

After one Surge and 2 solid PWO meals, I will assume I have very little PWO insulin sensitivity advantage. Those meals I will eat at maintenance, roughly equal calories of protein, fat, and carbs because I believe my “normal” insulin sensitivity to be good. If I thought my normal insulin sensitivity were poor, I would stick to meat, veggies, and fat for those meals.

A second part of my strategy is to increase insulin sensitivity and the p ratio for as many hours of as many days as possible. So I will train 2X per day, 4 days per week. I am following Coach Thibaudeau’s tips how to do this (haven’t gotten the hang of it yet; I tend to do too much in the morning session). I will then have 8 PWO windows instead of 3 or 4.

Insulin sensitivity in muscle improves with any activity, not just lifting. You can only train so many times a week. So I will increase insulin sensitivity in muscle by being as active as possible, mainly through walking because walking does not interfere at all with my training or recovery. More periods of activity means more periods of improved p ratio where I could take in above-maintenance calories and use them better than at normal/sedentary times. So non-PWO meals will be at maintenance after times of inactivity, and slightly above after periods of activity. PWO meals will be well above maintenance. The idea is to match the level of insulin/carbs/protein to the degree of insulin sensitivity.

For example, if it’s been 40 hours since my last workout, after almost 2 rest days, and I’ve been working on the computer, I assume my insulin sensitivity is no better than normal. Eating anything above maintenance will probably be stored as fat.

It’s obviously going to be hard to improve body comp if I spend a lot of time in that state of normal insulin sensitivity, so I want as few periods like that as possible during a week.

A third major factor of my eating plan is calories. I recently was able to measure how many calories I burn at rest and during various activities. I found that I greatly underestimated the calories burned for some of my activities. Turns out it wasn’t really the cardio or other activity interfering with gains, it was not eating enough calories to fuel those other activities – especially non-exercise activities. When I thought I was eating maintenance, I was really in a deficit. I will make sure that I am not in a deficit.

The fourth part of my plan is to further improve insulin sensitivity with supplements. I will take leucine with meals and Receptormax as directed. I have already seen much fuller muscles on a low-carb fat loss diet using these supplements, so I expect them to help with muscle gain.

So that’s my logic and my plan. Intelligent suggestions, observations, criticisms, and questions are welcomed. One area where I have not planned what to do is peri-workout nutrition.