T Nation

Putting ME & DE Together?


#1

what would you guys think about doing the speed squats first and then a max effort day afterward.

i.e.
box squats 10x3
work up to a max in say good mornings or some other ME lift


#2

I would expect a sub-par performance on the ME work afterwards. If you are strapped for time and needed to combine the 2 days then I would use a total body approach ala the tier system, eg: DE upper body followed by ME lower body and then vice versa the next time you train.

I've read this subject covered on a few posts, and most agree that DE followed by ME is not ideal for the same type of body parts/movements.


#3

That might be a little high on the reps, but I know a few explosive reps can be great as a primer for maximal lifting. Try asking CT or Cressey in their locker rooms.


#4

If I understood the question correctly, you are asking if it is OK to do DE on Monday and then say ME on Wednesday.

If that is the question, there shouldn't be a problem.


#5

I suppose I've been doing this all wrong then. I start ME squat on Tuesday, then DE Deads... Thursday, I start DE ass to grass squats then move to ME Deads. Both are making fantastic gains.

Try it and see how you feel. Remember, there is no absolute right or wrong way.


#6

For the squat/dl day, you can do the following:

Box Squats 5x2 (speed sets)
*Every other week work up to a 1RM

Deadlifts or deadlift variation - work up to a 1RM
*Only do these on the weeks you are not working up to a 1RM on the box squat - so you'll do them every other week.

Hamstrings/Lower back - RE/Assistance lifts (3-8 sets of 3-15 reps)

Abs

This is what is used when doing twice-a-week workouts per the Elite Training Templates manual.

The upper body day is done differently. No DE work, but a lot more volume for all other stuff.


#7

I have used DE and ME successfully on the same day.

I kept me speed sets around 5 or 6 without as much accomodating resistance as I would on a DE only day.

For the ME movement, I choose something that was simliar. For example, chain bench followed by a 4 board press. Chain 14 inch box squat, followed by a 14 inch ME box squat without chains.

Awhile back there was a post on elitefts on this topic. Unfortunately it did not go into much detail and a question I sent in was not answered (not saying this is bad, they are bombarded with tons of questions daily).

If you think about it, DE and ME is what a lot of Oly programs are structured as.


#8

Adding some weight after the speed sets, and striving to keep the speed up is a key part of learning to be fast.

There is also a real carryover to doing some heavy sets then doing your speed work afterward.

You gotta try it to know.

jmo
jack


#9

I believe one can achieve good results in such pairings. Using a heavy weight followed by lighter weight, with maybe a different exercise, is known as a complex. I'm not too familiar with this topic, so I can't give you too many details. Ask Thibs, as this is his area of expertises.

-The Truth


#10

Doing DE before ME can actually improve your performance on ME if the sets aren't too high. (experiment and see) An alternative is to alternate a DE set followed by an ME set.

If you do this, you will see better ME efforts. The trick is knowing when to stop the sets, i.e. when more is not better. The answer is when you peak on ME or your DE slows down.

Try and see for yourself, you may be really pleasantly surprised.

Rolo.