T Nation

Putin: What do YOU Think Happened?


#1

More Intelligence Reports are surfacing that Putin decided to go all KGB on Clinton and the DNC’s asses with this last election. So it begs the question; (and I’m just asking for your opinion):

What do you think happened then? (As it related to the Trump and his Minions)?

I honestly do not think that there was then a coordinated effort between Putin and the Trump campaign. Nor do I think that it SIGNIFICANTLY affected the outcome of the election. (When you have a candidate who had previously lost to a Black Man named Hussein…and almost lost to an old, cranky, Jewish Socialist with a lisp…one does not have a very strong candidate).

What I think is that Flynn and Manafort KNEW what Putin was planning (they both have a history of being jerks, and weasels…with Manafort always skirting the edges of legality…and they both just turned a “blind-eye” and said):

"Hey…do what ya’ gotta’ do, Vlad…that’s on you…"

Collusion? No.

Did “nothing” happen? I don’t know what World anyone who believes this lives in.

Indifference to a Hostile Nation State interfering in our Elections? HELL yes.

Illegal? I don’t know.

Did Trump know? I don’t know.

Your thoughts?


#2

If you believe in following the money, we need to start with Trump being such a bad businessman that even cheating people he still lost so much money American banks wouldn’t float him anymore, so he had to get money from the Russians or lose everything. This involvement long predated his political ambitions.

Now that he is President, he has laughed with the Russians over the firing of Comey, complimented Putin on a regular basis, and refused to ensure the security of Europe in case of Russian attack.


#3

Wow.

I really didn’t know this.

I knew he had a lot of “bust” (like Atlantic City)…but I didn’t realize it had gotten quite this bad.


#4

I think that Russia had a huge ax to grind with HRC from her time as SoS and their attack on her was going to happen to the benefit/detriment of who ever ran against her, no matter who it was. If I remember correctly both SMH and Bismark posted numerous articles to that effect which included opinions from some of the highest ranking officials and scholars.

That Trump played it up is just characteristic of his compulsion to do the exactly wrong thing every damn time.

As people love to point out when an automotive manufacturer or other business sector makes a move- He loves to jump out in front and take credit for something he had nothing to do with.

Do his business dealings with Russian gangsters and construction projects an Waybackistan prove that he had anything to do with official Russian government actions- No. They certainly muck things up, but my understanding is that you won’t do business in any of that part of the world without doing business with them. Russian organized crime has permeated virtually ever level of society and business. If you want to build a golf course or hotel you’re going to be doing it with Igor Bumpsyouoffsky or some other high level thug.


#5

There’s one thing doing business with such guys because you have to - usually a local intermediary with deniable links does the dirty work in terms of brib…enticements for the building permits and other stuff.

Another thing is positively reveling their company, starring in their vanity music videos and such.

Don’t let the corny videos fool you - Emin is shady as fuck.


#6

Doesn’t fool me at all. What really surprises me is that Trump has been in R.E. development and involved, tangentially as it may be, with organized crime his whole life- but nothing, not a single skeleton, shook lose during his campaign.

Given who would be shaking the tree- HRC, I doubt she wanted anything too dirty coming out. It would probably be really hard explaining who’s dirt is who’s without looking like 2 pigs in the same pen.


#7

Trump told his supporters at a rally he had nothing to do with Russia. Are you suggesting we don’t believe them? What’s next the America first president gets his ties made overseas. Cmon I think we have to trust him


#8

There’s a remarkable story with Trump and Sater aka Satter, the Mob lawyer with KGB connections turned FBI informant who admitted to a 40 million dollar fraud and did time for glassing some guy in the head.

Even if we ignore the circumstantial evidence, there are still Trump’s court depositions describing their relationship. How the fuck do you let a guy like this come near you - either you’re completely clueless or up to something nefarious.

Also, here’s another story about that Emin guy from the videos - one Azeri blogger started writing about the relationship between Trump and the Agalarov clan and suddenly died from a bad case of having a metal rod shoved up his anus, the signature move of Emin’s ex father-in-law Ilhan Aliyev (well, that and boiling people alive)

Obviously, the best case scenario is that Trump or his team never did their homework.


#9

Ha ha…I can only hope that this nonsense continues on to the mid-term elections.

Oh yes…oh yes…


#10

Why would they? If there is something that might come to light that could cause problems, isn’t it better to not know?

He’s from the US. He’s a real estate guy, not a syndicated crime guy. Knowing things like that defeats plausible deniability.


#11

It’s completely made up that’s why you didn’t know this


#12

Ignorance isn’t bliss when it comes to money. Putting legal/moral/ethical issues aside, f you do business above the board and hang out with the wrong crowd, you’ll lose money.

If you’re engaged in under the table business dealings, that’s another matter because obviously you then have a hidden agenda. So like I said, it’s either incompetence or illegality.

This article outlines nicely why the Azeri deal was shady as fuck. I know my first reaction was WTF when I heard of the deal.


#13

Being facetious of course, but: Who’s shady? There’s nothing wrong with that, and even if there was- The laws are wrong, not what we did.

It reads to me like a comedy, really. Like asking my son what he’s eating and he says “Nothing!” as he chews it. “But if I was, it wasn’t a cookie.” once he swallowed it.


#14

I don’t know that I agree with you that you lose money. I think guys like Emin and others can be highly charming when they need to be, and I think people with connections, money, and ego can often get away with being incompetent and still make money…because the high level thugs they are playing with like people with connections.

Put it this way–I think Trump has played with the sharks, but I think he is a large enough bank account, famous enough, and just shady enough that he is viewed as useful. It is always more profitable in the long run to have a business ally with a large bank account than it is to have a dead/broke former famous ally. Forget the president thing, if he was a normal guy, lost the election and wound up dead under mysterious circumstances, there would be a major investigation and some major repercussions. Because he’s rich and famous. And you don’t knock those kinds of people off when they live across the ocean in an opposing superpower where your mob rule (literally) doesn’t protect you like it does at home in the Motherland.

Essentially its almost like a “too big to fail” rule for organized crime–you ever see those nature documentaries where a pack of hungry wolves stalks some arctic buffalo or something? They stalk and follow and will rip off one of the babies, but very rarely will they attack a full grown buffalo unless they are desperately starving. And if they do it’s alone in their territory, not standing together with the rest of the thundering herd…because even though the wolves are more dangerous they’re outnumbered and outgunned going up against a herd where their pack rules don’t apply. So instead they are content to pick off the babies and the old and sick, but they leave the biggest ones alone because the repercussions of attacking will decimate the pack.

I think Trump is shady, but I also think he is not near as shady as the Russians he hangs with and that he deliberately fools himself into believing that they’re “great guys, just fine”. Throw in a little ego stoking and some charm and money and Trump’s just fine ignoring things that don’t hit him across the face. He probably likes the fact that guys like Emin et al. “get things done”. I don’t think he asks too many questions.

Also judging by his campaign and administration, I don’t think he is competent. I think he’s just “too big to fail” in those terms.


#15

Of course you can’t compare Trump with these guys, Trump doesn’t boil people alive, for starters. He’s a real estate developer first and foremost. These guys are very, very scary.

But here’s the thing that bothers me with the Azeri deal - every now and then some Russian/ex-Soviet major mobster wants to build something - a luxurious resort, a five star hotel, a golf course or a shopping mall in some god forsaken shithole where he was born in order to show his babushka that he made it.

Usually, he approaches a major chain to arrange licensing with a generous offer, and it doesn’t pass the smell test - foot traffic per square foot of retail space for a shopping mall, daily/weekly/monthly average occupancy for a hotel, that sort of thing. In layman terms, who’s gonna shop/stay there once it’s built.

And such investments don’t make any business sense - in one instance they couldn’t massage the numbers for a shopping mall even when they assumed that literally everyone in a 300 mile radius will shop there daily at NYC prices.

So the major chains politely say “thanks but not thanks” and such vanity projects are therefore run as their own brands. No one is willing to risk their reputation on a mob vanity project for a few million in licensing fees - something that the Trump organization claims they’ve done - and for a paltry five million.

Sometimes, such projects make perfect business sense if you factor in nefarious activities - one such luxury resort in the middle of nowhere was actually a gigantic brothel for Iranian Revolutionary Guards and clergymen - last I’ve heard they’re making a killing with two planeloads daily from Tehran.

So this is what bugs me - either Trump and Ivanka are literally clueless and slapped their brand name on a toxic project for a few million in return or as the New Yorker article alleges they’re involved much deeper with the Azeri mafia clans.

Literally anyone could have told them that a few million in not worth doing business with people who shove metal rods in other people’s rectums.

Like I said, it’s either incompetence or nefarious intent.


#16

Right, I don’t particularly disagree with this part. The “going broke losing money” part is what I don’t see in a case like Trump’s. I am inclined towards incompetence, frankly.


#17

If it’s completely made up why is Trump tweeting about Russia interfering with the election? Is Trump now also FakeNews?


#18

After 98 senators voted to sanction Russia will they all have a rough midterm or just the Dems that voted for it?

I mean I know the liberal media is more powerful than the combined might of all 3 branches of govt, but is the media THAT much more powerful?


#19

I will suggest to you that the republicans voted as they did because of pressure from the media. And that the media is perceived as powerful because it is able to help form the opinions of the voters. Not that it has law making power etc. But when you can reach a mass number of people with your message that message is able to change minds. And that is why the media is perceived as very powerful by those in the Senate.

With that said, I think the republican Senator’s are weenies for caving in as they have done so many times. If Trump has proved nothing else he has certainly shown that the MSLM does not carry the power that it used to. As soon as republican Senators realize that there will be no more caving in. But they are a very scared group of people right now.

So who gets blamed for the Russian fiasco? I think it will be a good mix of democrat politicians “the resistance” LOL…and the MSLM. Honestly, I know many on the left think it’s pretty cool when they watch protestors marching up and down the streets carrying anti-Trump signs. And extra cool when Hollywood idiots pile on. But you are going to have to trust me when I say that the regular Joe who works hard every day and votes in every election finds this type of behavior repulsive.

When the dems lose seats in the mid-terms please remember where you heard it said first.


#20

Yeah just a few days ago we had posters questioning Russia. Now that Trump said it where are the questions?

We couldn’t believe all intelligence community members and politicans of both sides but the minute Trump says it it must be gospel.

You can’t make this stuff up