Push/Pull with Same Day Legs or Hybrid FBW+U/L While Cutting

Hi. I just started cutting and trying to create a workout routine which i would enjoy and wouldn’t take too much time. I really like FBW and PPL but I don’t like doing legs on a separate day. I am also not a fan of Fierce5. I’d prefer to train 4x per week. I customized a PPL which is more of a full body workout benefit but in a Push Push routine, or really a 4x PP+Legs

Age: 31
Weight: 200lbs
Hight: 5’11

A1 - B1 - Off - A2 - B2 - Off - Off

Monday A1 (Chest / Shoulders / Tricep / Legs + ABS)
Tuesday B1 (Back / Biceps / Legs + Forearm)
Wednesday Off
Thursday A2 (Chest / Shoulders / Tricep / Legs + ABS)
Friday B2 (Back / Biceps / Legs + shrugs)
Saturday Off
Sunday Off

Workout A1 - Push

Squat 4x 5 reps
Dumbbell Bench Press 4x 8 reps
Shoulder Press 4x 8 reps
Lying Tricep Extension 3x 10 reps

  • Plank / Lying Leg Raise

Workout B1 - Pull

Dumbbell Romanian Deadlift 4x 8 reps
Leg Curl 3x 10 reps
Pull Ups 3x max
Cable Hammer Curl 3x 12 reps

  • Dumbbell Wrist Curls

Workout A2 - Push

Leg Press 4x 8 reps
Inclined Dumbbell Bench Press 3x 8 reps
Lateral Raise 3x12 reps
Dips 3x max

  • Russian twist / Crunches

Workout B2 - Pull

Deadlift 4x 5 reps
Pull Through 2x10 reps
Barbell Rows 3x 8 reps
Biceps Curls 3x 10 reps

  • Shrugs

Would this be fine? Is there something you would add or change?

I also found a premade workout on the site which suits me well, just modified 2 exercises. It is a Upper/Lower + FBW hybrid. Would this one be better than the one which I created?

MONDAY: WHOLE-BODY

Front Squat 3x 5
Incline Dumbbell Press 3x 8
Loaded Back Extension 3x 8
Weighted Pull-Up 3x 12
Hammer Curl 3x 8
Lying Tricep Extension 3x10

WEDNESDAY: WHOLE-BODY

Leg Press 3x 8
Dip 3x max
Romanian Deadlift 3x 6
T Bar Row 3x 8
Barbell Curl 3x 8
Pushdown 3x 10

FRIDAY: LOWER-BODY

Back Squat 3x 5
Hip Thrust 3x 10
Lunges 3x 10
Seated Leg Curl 3x 10

SATURDAY: UPPER-BODY

Weighted Push-Up 3x max
Chin-Up 3x max
Military Press 3x 10
Low Cable Curl 3x 10

Is there something wrong with the literal hundreds of already tried, tested, and proven programs out there? Doing what you’re doing now kept me small and fat.

Why so?
I’ve always used either split, PPL or FBW and planned these myself. Fierce 5 and all it’s variations are the most hyped but I just don’t enjoy these too much.

The second program is actually from T-nation.
Which other program would you recommend?

Ever talk to a well known professional coach? I’ll use @Christian_Thibaudeau as an example…
I’ve been reading T-Nation for nearly a decade and thought i knew a lot. To be fair, i DO know a lot compared to normies. But when i talk to CT or read some of his replies - he makes me feel outright ignorant, and I’m quite certain I’m not alone in feeling that way.
The guys that make these programs literally do it for a living… to think that a hobbyist (which we all are, unless your primary source of income is training) would be able to craft something similar or better is, well, ignorant (not in a bad way).

That’s fine, but i wouldn’t go as far as to call it a “program”, rather, a way to organize your training. Many programs follow these training splita as well.

Depends on your goals and how far advanced you are in training.

The program written out by the TNation author was likely written with a greater depth of knowledge than the one you wrote out. It’s not that you don’t know what you’re doing either.

I liken it to driving… if you are an objectively good driver - that’s great! But to think you could sit behind the wheel of a track car and perform like an actual racecar driver, would be pretty ill informed lol.

I did well for years by writing my own training out. Then i came here, started following programs written by professionals, and saw more progress in 1 year than id seen in the past 5 combined.

1 Like

Got it, thank you for sharing an opinion.

I studied dietetics (viewing workout programs as well) in my foreign country so I have some knowledge but I wouldn’t call it professional. I lift for around 8 years but has some breaks, so I’d say it’s 2 year consistently.

Europeans usually just do straight split, FBW, Upper/Lower or Push/Pull/Legs (the last one is not as common). The people on non-US forums or at the gym never heard of any of these programs such as Fierce5, nSun, BBB, FSL etc. When I posted it on a forum, all said that it is not good at all. My school is much different, and I would say that both of these plans that I posted is fine and covered all muscles.

And other way around, I am working with an out of country specialist that is a powerlifter with 25yr experience and prepares a lot of people for professional competition. I pasted a plan that he prepared on other US forum and everyone said that it sucks.
That’s why I am so confused.

Here is the plan that he created for me to start with my cutting.

3 (workout days) / 1 (off) / 3 (workout days) / 2 (off)

Workout Variant 1

Monster Walk with a resistance band around midfoot
Plank for 30 seconds
Romanian Deadlifts with dumbbells for 5 reps
Row from plank position, 4 sets of 10 reps
Bulgarian split squats, 3 sets of 10 reps per leg
Seated dumbbell curls with an underhand grip, 4 sets of 8 reps
Stationary lunges with dumbbells, 3 sets of 10 reps
Pendlay row with dumbbells, 4 sets of 8 reps

Workout Variant 2

Romanian Deadlifts with dumbbells, 4 sets of 5 reps
Pull-ups on a bar with a band assistance, 5 sets of 5 reps
Skiing motion with a resistance band, 4 sets of 12 reps
Sumo Deadlift with dumbbells and a resistance band, 5 sets of 8 reps (fixed weight)
Bench press with dumbbells, 4 sets of 12 reps
Push-ups with a resistance band, 3 sets of 8 reps (each set to failure)
Plus: 3 sets of plank, 1 set of side plank

Workout Variant 3

Goblet Squats, 3 sets of 8 reps (5210)
Neutral grip push press with dumbbells, 3 sets of 10 reps (fixed weight, with a slight reserve)
Barbell rows along the torso, 4 sets of 10 reps
French press lying down with dumbbells, 4 sets of 12 reps
Seated bicep curls with supination, 4 sets of 12 reps
Chair squats with dumbbells, heels on a platform, 3 sets of 10 reps (4210)
Good mornings, 3 sets of 10 reps (3210) (to failure)
Plus:
Abs: leg raises lying on the floor, every 10 seconds raise legs 20 cm x3
Allah's with a resistance band attached to a bar, 3 sets of 12 reps.

And here is a plan which he created for my last bulk.

Wednesday, Saturday, Sunday off.

W1
(Activation)
Monster walk + plank superman x 4
Rotational band pull-downs alternately 4 x 12 per side
Stiff-legged deadlift with dumbbells and a knee pause 1 x 6

1.Deadlift with wider grip, 2cm deficit 4/4/2/2/1/1
2.Bench dumbbell press 3 x 6
3.Good morning 3 x 10
4.Front squats (3311 tempo) 3 x 3
5.Push press 4 x 5
5.21s for biceps with dumbbells while seated 3x

W2
(Activation)
Cuban rotations
Banded pull-aparts behind the back
Banded pulldowns with elbows out x 3

1.1. Incline bench press
1.2. Incline dumbbell press
1.3. Pause bench press 3/2/2/1/5
2.Chest stretch with band 3 x 8
3.Floor press with neutral grip dumbbells and band 4 x 6
4.Close-grip bench press 4/6/5
5.Standing French press with dumbbells 3 x 12
6.Hammer curls 2 x 6
7.Band pull-apart with overhead press 4 x 12
8.Ab wheel rollouts 3 x 10

W3
(Activation)
Lunges + step-ups 3 x 12
Monster walk with two bands (knees, mid-foot) 3 x max reps

1.Rear foot elevated split squats 5/2/2/1/3
2.Sumo deadlifts from high blocks 3/4/5/6
3.Bulgarian split squats 3 x 10 per leg
4.Standing calf raises on a raised platform 3 x max reps

W4
1.Pendlay rows 3 x 12
2.Incline dumbbell press + flyes 3 x 10+10
3.Seated lateral raises 3 x 12
4.Triceps pushdowns with band 3 x 10
5.Standing bicep curls with supination 2 x 12
6.Barbell curls 3 x max
7.Weighted glute bridge 3x
8.Side plank 2x

Not being a jerk, I’m not 100% sure what to review here. Is your goal to cut?

Yes, I just started cutting and trying to find a plan that would help me maintain as much muscle as possible that I would enjoy.

In my OP, I included two plans that I am considering. In my last post, I’ve included two routines, first one is a routine created by a reputable trainer from Poland for my cut, and the second routine is what I’ve been doing while bulking.

I’m trying to see why are the first two considered bad.