Why hasn’t anybody mentioned bb military presses as assistance for the push press yet?
Here’s some advice from Glenn Pendlay that was posted on another forum:
My advice on push press is to #1 get your squat and front squat up. Thatâ??s a whole other thread, but it’s safe to say that you wont be push pressing 300lbs with the same squat numbers that you are push pressing 230lbs with. Youâ??ll need strong legs.
When I push pressed 440lbs, I had done 770 for a triple on the Olympic style squat wearing only a belt, and 606lbs for a set of 10 without even wearing a belt. Rob McAdams push pressed 375lbs weighing about 200lbs, he squatted 400lbs for a set of 20 OL style with no belt, and did front squats with 440lbs and more wearing only a belt. It’s hard for me to imagine a 300lb push press with much less than a 500lb OL style squat done raw. Iâ??m sure its been done by some freak, hell some freak out there probably push presses his max squat. But if you’re aiming for 300lbs on the push press, I’d aim for 500lbs on a raw squat done deep and a stance close to what you are push pressing with.
Now as to training the push press itself… I would do them twice per week if you are no good at them, if your technique is bad. Do this just to learn the movement. If you are skilled at them, cut it back to once. But do overhead work 3 times per week if you can. Do a variety of movements. Military press, push jerks, even snatch grip push press, and regular push press with the bar behind the neck. Benching once per week won’t hurt you, but if you bench too much, it cuts down on what you can do overhead, at least in my opinion.
A good workout emphasizing the push press might look like this
Monday
5x5 on military press
Wednesday
3x5 on push press
Friday
3x5 on bench press
3x5 a little lighter on some other overhead movement, like push jerk, or snatch grip push press
Start conservative, build and after 4 or 5 weeks change the reps or one of the exercises.
For variety, you can do complex exercises… for instance, on one of the days, you can use a weight you can do around 4 or 5 reps on the military press, press it for 3 reps then push press it for 3 more, for 3 or 4 sets.
Or, if you know how to jerk, take a weight you can push press say 5 times, push press it for 3, then jerk it for 2 or 3 more… again for 3 or 4 sets.
These complexes are killers! Donâ??t overdo them.
That’s basically it, get your squat up, and practice overhead work. Its nice to see someone interested in my favorite upper body exercise. A big bench is cool, but there is always the equipment controversy. A big jerk is simply a thing of beauty to me, but there are always those who scream “it’s all technique” and dismiss the strength needed to do it. But a big push press, I donâ??t know, to me, itâ??s just the absolute coolest expression of shoulder/arm strength there is. I think a big push press is a damn cool thing.
Just remember that the real “meat” of a program isn’t so much the exercises or the days of the week… it’s how you plan/approach your progression. Make sure you keep good track of what your doing… try to make small steady jumps on your weights, try to do things in some sort of systematic way and not be jumping all over the place. And last, listen to your own body, use your own head! Listening to others is good, but if you listen TOO MUCH, and don’t think for yourself, you’ll end up flying all over the place always trying the latest greatest thing. Pay attention to what is working for you, and what isn’t. Make changes in a reasonable fashion, know why you are changing, and change one thing at a time so you can monitor the results.
Glenn Pendlay
[quote]JPuxHenri wrote:
Why hasn’t anybody mentioned bb military presses as assistance for the push press yet?[/quote]
I don’t know why no one else mentioned it, but I know that I personally didn’t mention it because I think it has shitty carryover to push press.
I can bring my strict press up by push pressing, but strict pressing never brings my push press up.
My push press increased when my hip strength increased.
Front squat
1/4 front squats
Rack lockouts
Floor press
Im not sure about DB work. The amount of weight I could handle with a DB isn’t anywhere near a barbell and I think it would just be too light. I think the same would go for jump training. You’d think it might help with explosiveness and leg drive, but I doubt anywhere near the amount that front squats and 1/4 front squats would.
Im doing my first push press workout in a while today. Im going to be working in the 6-8 rep range probably, and probably wont be doing much assistance right away. Just straight push press, but as my lift starts to stall, i’ll switch to more lockouts and heavy front squats.
My current goal is 190 x 8, and I think im probably at about 145 x 8.
[quote]dankid wrote:
Im not sure about DB work. The amount of weight I could handle with a DB isn’t anywhere near a barbell and I think it would just be too light. [/quote]
I don’t understand this statement. You’re doing reps in the mid 100’s, yet some dumbbell work won’t help. If you knocked out some reps with 80’s-110’s, how would that be too light?
Maybe I’m just misunderstanding you.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
dankid wrote:
Im not sure about DB work. The amount of weight I could handle with a DB isn’t anywhere near a barbell and I think it would just be too light.
I don’t understand this statement. You’re doing reps in the mid 100’s, yet some dumbbell work won’t help. If you knocked out some reps with 80’s-110’s, how would that be too light?
Maybe I’m just misunderstanding you.[/quote]
Well what I meant is that say I can push press 155 for 6. If I were to do DB’s i’d maybe be able to do 60’s. A lot of it would be getting them into the starting position, but maybe thats just me.
I just think that since its a power type exercise, heavy loads and explosive movements would work best. And alot of it is supporting strength in the starting position, which db’s just wont offer enough load to make beneficial. Maybe single arm DB snatch, because it allows a lot of weight to be lifted overhead if you are good at them, but the lockout position is very different on them compared to overhead press with two arms.
But ya, I think it depends a lot on what type of lifter you are as well. As someoone mentioned their are the technique/power lifters and then there are those with just pure brute strength. Im long limbed and fairly skinny, so for me its all about a strong support off the chest, good quick leg drive and lockout with the triceps. They actually dont seem to work my soulders as much as i’d expect, but probably as my triceps get stronger, and i get to heavier loads, my shoulders will start to get worked harder.
Guess I just think differently. I remember after the 72 OG when discussing who was the strongest guy in the world Alexev or Cole and my coach who was friends with the national coach said what about Bondarchuck (won hammer ) he had seen him power clean 205 in the trainin g hall, and he does not specialise in Ol as he is a thrower. Asked him what a basic throwers workout was and he replied
Squat
Power Clean
Bench
We have come a very long way since then, and we have a huge amount of options available with a long line of devotees to back them up, but many forget that getting strong is actually kind of simple, if you had a 150kg power clean, or a 180 kg bench or a 250kg squat, I am betting your Push Press would not be an issue.
and if you ask what a thrower would do today it is not Squat, Bench Power Clean, but if you only worked those, your basic strength would not let you down.
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
I’ll try the chest forward thing, but I don’t see how I could get more leg drive. Any more specific suggestions?
Thanks.
Its more about puffing up your chest and keeping it there, then pushing it forward. And the other big suggestion is staying flat on your feet as you dip and drive, as opposed to coming up onto your toes early. You should not extend your calves until you’ve already extended your knees and hips. Those are the two big form suggestions.
As far as leg drive suggestions from a strength point of view, more squatting. You need to build your leg strength up a lot more, in my opinion.[/quote]
Excellent. . . Focus on finishing hip and knee extension before the ankles come. That helps me understand what you mean.
I’ll try this, get video, and post back later.
I can’t argue with the leg strength bit. Definitely going to be pushing my squat #s up.
Thank you.
[quote]GMH454 wrote:
With a 205 push press anything will improve it, not sure how well he may do in strongman though, could be kind of tough …
but to specialise on a push press when you are at 205…
Not sure what you’re getting at. I never said I was specializing in the push press.
Guess I just think differently. I remember after the 72 OG when discussing who was the strongest guy in the world Alexev or Cole and my coach who was friends with the national coach said what about Bondarchuck (won hammer ) he had seen him power clean 205 in the trainin g hall, and he does not specialise in Ol as he is a thrower. Asked him what a basic throwers workout was and he replied
Squat
Power Clean
Bench
We have come a very long way since then, and we have a huge amount of options available with a long line of devotees to back them up, but many forget that getting strong is actually kind of simple, if you had a 150kg power clean, or a 180 kg bench or a 250kg squat, I am betting your Push Press would not be an issue.
and if you ask what a thrower would do today it is not Squat, Bench Power Clean, but if you only worked those, your basic strength would not let you down.[/quote]
Yeah, focusing the majority of training time on the big lifts is where it’s at. I think that supplemental assistance lifts can help. Are they 100% necessary? Like a lot of things, probably not.
The fact remains that many successful lifters have used assistance exercises to address weaknesses they have, much like a thrower, for example, may use a power clean to get more powerful hip extension in a throw.
I understand what you mean though.
Even so, if my dumbbell overhead press goes from 60’s to 85’s for sets of 10, there would be some type of carryover to push pressing. If nothing else the added deltoid and triceps hypertrophy could increase the potential for strength in push pressing: especially at lock out. I think this work can supplement a basic 3X5 or 5X5 on push pressing, as push pressing itself is very demanding in many respects, whereas higher rep dumbbell work, especially seated, is primarily demanding from a structural standpoint. Not so much neural as in push presses.
[quote]GMH454 wrote:
and if you ask what a thrower would do today it is not Squat, Bench Power Clean, but if you only worked those, your basic strength would not let you down.[/quote]
So what if instead, he worked the front squat, deadlift, push press? Those are the strongman 3. All he is doing is asking for assistance exercises to bring one of these up. There’s lots of information about how to squat, power clean, or bench more, but not that many people talk about bringing the push press up.
My push press seems to increase as my abs, lower back and rear delt increase in their strength. I was stuck at 200 for 2 for ever(about 2 months) then I started adding Face Pulls and Rear Delt work and some direct core strength work and I was able accelerate and stabalize the bar much better over head which seems to be the biggest problem for me. Either way yesterday I hit 225 for 2 and it has only been 4 weeks.
[quote]im_the_truth_ wrote:
My push press seems to increase as my abs, lower back and rear delt increase in their strength. I was stuck at 200 for 2 for ever(about 2 months) then I started adding Face Pulls and Rear Delt work and some direct core strength work and I was able accelerate and stabalize the bar much better over head which seems to be the biggest problem for me. Either way yesterday I hit 225 for 2 and it has only been 4 weeks. [/quote]
Great stuff, im_the_truth_.
How were you training your push press during that time?
OT slightly,any assistance for strict press?
Let’s keep this discussion going. . .
What are the most important technique considerations in a push press?
Where should the bar be in the hand before the press?
Just how much of a dip is appropriate?
I actually feel tightness in my glutes at the bottom of the dip phase. Is this a desirable thing?
When repping out a press in a strongman competition, is it best to go with as much leg drive as possible until fatigue and then rely on strict pressing strength?
None of those questions have a definite answer.
For example, as far as dip, it varies. Both of my training partners can press in the mid to high 300’s on any given day with a 12" log (400+ in competition), one of them has a deep dip, the other takes a quick shallow dip. Neither one of them is doing it wrong (obviously) but rather they’ve found what works.
As for the bar push press, I have to have the bar resting on my shoulders to get as much leg drive as possible, but bigger guys and those with a lot of shoulder strength get good results holding the bar off the chest.
I know that as for YOU, the biggest glaring weakness I see is that you aren’t pushing the bar soon enough. You’re getting great leg drive but not getting much out of it because your waiting for the weight to slow before you transition to your press-out. Secondly is tricep strength, hammer them. After that I’d say you aren’t pulling your hips through enough, though you might fix that just by widening your stance a bit.
As for reps, it depends on the event and weight. The only way to tell what will work is to take a set at contest weight and figure out what fails first, your strength or your conditioning. If it’s your conditioning, then make your presses more strict to save energy, if its strength, then use every muscle in your body to get the weight up.
And finally, after all the advice you got on here, there needs to be times when you forget all of it and just smash fucking weights.
[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
None of those questions have a definite answer.
For example, as far as dip, it varies. Both of my training partners can press in the mid to high 300’s on any given day with a 12" log (400+ in competition), one of them has a deep dip, the other takes a quick shallow dip. Neither one of them is doing it wrong (obviously) but rather they’ve found what works.
As for the bar push press, I have to have the bar resting on my shoulders to get as much leg drive as possible, but bigger guys and those with a lot of shoulder strength get good results holding the bar off the chest.
I know that as for YOU, the biggest glaring weakness I see is that you aren’t pushing the bar soon enough. You’re getting great leg drive but not getting much out of it because your waiting for the weight to slow before you transition to your press-out. Secondly is tricep strength, hammer them. After that I’d say you aren’t pulling your hips through enough, though you might fix that just by widening your stance a bit.
As for reps, it depends on the event and weight. The only way to tell what will work is to take a set at contest weight and figure out what fails first, your strength or your conditioning. If it’s your conditioning, then make your presses more strict to save energy, if its strength, then use every muscle in your body to get the weight up.
And finally, after all the advice you got on here, there needs to be times when you forget all of it and just smash fucking weights.[/quote]
Thanks, 3wl
I won’t let the advice go to waste, and I’ll definitely be smashing weights 
Well, just to jump in and beat a dead horse…
I would say the biggest help for me was to address more core stability training. Not crunches, but braced stability like a plank or even OH squatting. I think that a big part of my own issues with PP, especially in the log since it won’t let you stay completely upright and the abs have to take on a greater role in transferring leg drive power, was a weak core.
As for remarks about not being a great strongman with a 205 OH press… that is lame. There are a lot of us, strongman or otherwise, that compete for our own enjoyment and not with some hope that we may be breaking Mariusz’ WSM records. The guy asked for help to improve, why bother trying to “knock him down a notch?”
I will say that you can tell the strongmen from the “others” because the strongmen competitors I know don’t bother with trying to sabotage or diminish a competitor. Flow, welcome to the fold, brother.
Oh, I’ll also say that I find strict pressing of little value to my PP. If I’m going to strict press, I’ll do CGBP or something that will allow me to really load up my triceps. OH pressing (at least for me) doesn’t allow me to lift heavy enough with a strict press.
Compare a bench press (or incline bench) to what you can move in a military press and I think you will see that there are limiting factors involved with strict OH presing. Since this is an issue of lockout strength, I think you want to stick to the exercise that will allow you to load up the triceps as much as possible.
Thanks, Andrew.Cook.
I’m excited to get more experience under my belt so I can start lifting some truly heavy stuff