T Nation

Pull-up + Dip Combined

I know this is called a muscle up on rings, but today I did something similar on a chin-up bar. The bar was just at my height, so I would get down in a squat, my arms fully extended. I guess It may look like an OH squat position but not really. Anyways I would start the movement with my legs (as little as possible and stop when my upper body was above the bar with my arms fully extended. I believe I’ve seen this referred to as a Power Straight on exrx.net

Anyways my question is, have any of you tried this? To me it seemed mostly a power movement, because it was done so fast, because of the little leg drive. Also it was like the exercise was smooth throughout the movement like a clean or snatch. Not noticeably easier at the beginning or the end. I definitlely know I couldn’t have done it without the little boost form my legs. Would this be a good total upper body exercise or is the back involvement minimal because of the leg push.

The people at crossfit do those. They have a “trophy page” for members that have done them. I’ve never tried but I may have to because it looks like I can’t. That’s how I do things… if it looks impossible, I’ll do it (or die trying).

[quote]derek wrote:
The people at crossfit do those. They have a “trophy page” for members that have done them. I’ve never tried but I may have to because it looks like I can’t. That’s how I do things… if it looks impossible, I’ll do it (or die trying).[/quote]

Yes, “the people at crossfit do those” and they also overtrain like crazy everyday. I think it would be easier to put on muscle (if that’s your goal) by actually training and eating properly. Call me old fashion. :slight_smile:

As far as the “muscle up” it’s a great movement for those who can do it, and have the over head space to do it.

Hey Zeb,

Why do you think the Crossfit people are overtraining. If you were following their program for the past six days, you would have done 100 L-pullups, 5 rounds of 400m run and hang squats (x10), a 10km run, rest day, 5 rounds of 500m row and 65kg Bench (x15), and 14 x Squat working up to a max.
Hard going but hardly over-training.

I’ve never done a full week of Crossfit because my sports playing gets in the way but I do their workouts as often as I can - most of them take less than twenty minutes.

[quote]derek wrote:
The people at crossfit do those. They have a “trophy page” for members that have done them. I’ve never tried but I may have to because it looks like I can’t. That’s how I do things… if it looks impossible, I’ll do it (or die trying).[/quote]

What is crossfit?

I think alot of people donnot understand Crossfit is not designed to make you huge. It is designed to make you fit. I have done many of their workouts and enjoy them alot. If your goal is to get fit for sports/MA you cant go wrong with Crossfit. It is basically a GPP program on roids.

can i get some supporting links to cross fit programs and maybe a pic of this weird exercise that think i need to try? thanks people.

the wod (workout of the day) is posted on the main page.

The link to the exercise page will show you the muscle-up

Could we see an illustration of the exercise?

My “problem” with crossfit is multi-fold:

Firstly, I have read their “workout of the day.” Those who think that this wod will build muscle are mistaken. I know the stand pat answer is “the wod is not for muscle building.” Fine, then why do they (most members and their “coach”) pass it off as muscle building?

Secondly, why do they feel a need to denegrade bodybuilders for the movements that they perform?

I am not referring to the amount of steroids that pro BB take, I am speaking of the various movements that the typical body builder at any level might perform. Is it important to denegrate anothers training in order to feel important? I don’t like it when some on this site attack Powerlifters either. (That’s another post).

Thirdly, why do they elevate Gymnasts to an unrealistic level? Is it because their “coach” was a Gymastics instructor? I know Gymansts have great physiques (most of them). However, if it’s physiques that you are impressed with, body builders have better physiques! Also, ever see how Grapplers train? Ever get a good look at the physiques on high level grapplers? My point is that there are plenty of atheletes in many different sports who sport a great physique and train hard.

Fourthly, I have read their site before and it reads like a sanitized High School gym class. They don’t even pretend to have free speech over there. Quite frankly in my opinion it’s a joke, and run like a Mom and Pop corner store. I also think there is plenty of kool aid drinking going on over there…lol: “Yes, Coach, whatever you say Coach…you are wise…we are idiot peasants.” Hey, if you like that sort of environment go for it!

Personally (and that is what it’s all about personal tastes) I like the rough and tumble T-Nation style. In addition to that I have no idea how much time people have. However, if you are looking for THE BEST muscle building information on the net, then why waste your time at crossfit when you be at T-Nation instead?

Most newbies to T-Nation have no idea all of the quality muscle building articles that are available for free!

Okay…now who asked me that question?

As regards Zeb’s post
Point 1: You will build muscle on Crossfit especially if you combine it with some Olympic lifting. It’s a great system for non-roid munchers and makes you very bloody fit. Some of us want to be able to run and lift.
Point 2: Agree with you.
Point 3: Agree. Gymnastics is very difficult to master and I believe requires training to the exclusion of lifting, other sports. They have elevated it to mythical status.
Point 4: Agree with you. I got barred from the discussion board because I didn’t want my real name in the bulletin boards. Not afraid of saying who I am - don’t want my boss reading it either.

In their defence, you will find numerous positive references to T-Nation in the Crossfit boards, particularly the articles by people like Dan John. They raved about the recent Deadlift Diagnosis piece.
I think they rightly dismiss some of the articles here (Top Ten Profanity Sets would be a good recent example) as overly complicated and specialised when sometimes the basic compound lifts might be the best option.
Secondly, on the boards there, if somebody asks a question (stupid or newbie or whatever) - they get an answer. Half the time on T-Nation, you either A/ get told how much other people lift B/ that you are a pansy or C/ to eat more.

As to the original post, I’ve done something similar with my squat rack, but I can’t seem to get both arms up and over at the same time. I am able to get the right OR the left over first and then up the rest of the way. I guess it needs more work. Add that to the list of to-dos.

Zeb,
While I agree with you about most of what you posted here about CrossFit (and in many other threads, particularly concerning chins!) I must say that some of those points could readily be applied to many, if not most, of the posters on T-Nation. Especially the kool-aid comment. I like the articles and such, but if there’s ever a dissenting opinion (not by a troll, mind you), that person gets vilified by many here.

JMO,
Matt

[quote]Matthew9v9 wrote:
As to the original post, I’ve done something similar with my squat rack, but I can’t seem to get both arms up and over at the same time. I am able to get the right OR the left over first and then up the rest of the way. I guess it needs more work. Add that to the list of to-dos.

Zeb,
While I agree with you about most of what you posted here about CrossFit (and in many other threads, particularly concerning chins!) I must say that some of those points could readily be applied to many, if not most, of the posters on T-Nation. Especially the kool-aid comment. I like the articles and such, but if there’s ever a dissenting opinion (not by a troll, mind you), that person gets vilified by many here.

JMO,
Matt[/quote]

I know what you mean, but the seeming control freaks over there at crossfit are quite a bit different than the sort who lead this site. You would have to agree with me on that one. No?

ZEB,

I don’t really see how they’re overtraining seeing as a lot of the people there are incredibly fit.

There are women on Crossfit who knock off 40 pull-ups and backsquat/bench over 200lbs.

Some of your points are valid, but man, you come across as such a negative whiner.

The WOD is not the best way to build muscle, that I agree with. However, it’s a pretty decent way considering the incredible fitness it leads to.

Well, they feel most bodybuilder movements aren’t functional. Just personal preference I guess. Why do you denigrate them for having less muscle?

Well, gymnasts not only have a lot of hypertrophy, but tremendous strength, agility, flexibility.

I find the allusion to sycophantic behavior a bit ironic coming from you but I do see your point here.

Zulu:

Let’s take your points one by one:

  1. Agree, there are plenty of people at crossfit who are quite fit. However, I never stated that they were not, did I? One of my problems with their methodology is that if you are an ecotomorph their program will not add muscle to your frame! In fact, it might just do the opposite.

  2. I know of no women over there that can do 40 consecutive dead hang Chin-ups. Know why? Because they don’t recommend that their trainees do dead hang Chins. They insist that the swinging Chin is far superior. So…basically they cheat on every Chin-up. Don’t get me wrong swinging Chins can be a great way to train. I just want to make sure that you understand that they are far easier to do than dead hangs. You can add perhaps 100% (or so) to your total doing them the way CF does them. By the way, I’ll put the T-Women up agaisnt the crossfit women any day if you want to talk about pure power!

  3. You state that some of my points are valid (meaning you agree), yet call me a “negative whiner”. Does that mean if someone points out a problem with a system (or a web site) they should be categorized as a “negative whiner”? Does that phrase really fit? I have also stated “to each his own.” And “It’s all about personal tastes.” And “If you like that sort of environment go for it.” Seems I am being open minded to those who like that sort of thing.

  4. You stated: “The workout of the day is not the best way to build muscle that I agree with.” “Why do you denigrate them for having less muscle.” I merely point out that they make claims that the wod will give trainees more muslce, and it does not! I’m glad that you have at least admitted that the wod is an inferior way to build muscle. Are you being negative, or pointing out a fact?

  5. Yes, Gymnasts are in great shape. I already stated: “Gymnasts have great physiques.” However, the way they promote Gymnasts is what is disturbing. One can promote a methodology without casting disparaging remarks about anothers form of training. At crossfit seems all they do is disparage other forms of training, starting with bodybuilders. Personally, I think Gymnasts are in great physical condition. Does that mean that that’s the only way to train…for everyone? That is exactly what they promote, while casting doubt on every other form of training. See my point?

  6. In your final point while agreeing with me once again, you made an allusion that I have displayed syncophantic behavior. I have given Coaches on this site compliments, if I thought their information was good. I have also made comments to Coaches whom I thought were full of crap (by the way I was attacked for this the latter…funny huh?) The good part is, I am allowed to do that here at T-Nation.

If I like what you have to offer, I’ll tell you. If I don’t like what you have written I will tell you that too. If you think that I have made many more positive than negative comments about this site you are right on! There is a reason for that, I like it here. One of the reasons I like it here is because I am able to voice my own opinion, not the party line. Is that sycophant behavior, or honesty?

At corssfit it seems like you have no choice! You sing their mantra or get the boot. Are just happen to agree all the time? There is obviously no “free speech” at crossfit. I think another poster on this thread alluded to the same point. Do you see the difference between crossfit and T-Nation?

One more time:

crossfit = one methodology for training. It is “the best.” Don’t question it!

T-Nation = Many ways to succeed regarding fitness and muscle building. Many different articles and programs written by many different (high caliber) Coaches. Oh…and if you are not sure, please question it!

Zeb makes some very good points about crossfit. If you are going to check out the site there is a lot of BS and a lot of good stuff over there.

They have some great video clips of exercises over there.

Check it out, don’t drink the Kool-Aid, and come back to T-Nation for a more complete picture.

lol…What happens when you read too deep into T-Nation and CrossFit? Still being hung up on overtraining fears and thinking you won’t build muscle. Two things that for some reason people think is very possible. Wanna see how CrossFit builds muscle?

Ignore the time competitions

Breakdown the total number of reps

Increase the weight on lifts

Add weight to basics like dips and pull ups

Follow nutritional ideas here on T-Nation

Be the creating individual, unless you are that helpless that you have no self-control to modify any WODs or T-Nation workouts.

Finally push yourself.

There are good points and not so good points in every training site. CrossFit deals with foundation in achieving general performance (gpp), yet they may go overboard with gymnastics and navy pt manuals. T-Nation deals with foundation and specific work related to other realms of fitness- visual and performance, yet there is a strong devotion to bodybuilding and getting the most out of your body, which is a much better devotion than other resources. They both have great ideas for different purposes. Neither is a waste of time when you have a particular purpose.

I’ve been doing CrossFit WODs and T-Nation inspired workouts for over 3 years. I have yet to experience overtraining, my purpose is my job and my sports. Both do just fine for all my purpose to train. I too find overrated bodybuilding moves to be a waste- leg extensions, leg press, squat-rack curls, kickbacks, etc—you know the kind of moves that even T-Nation is critical of.

Chubs:

It’s working for you primarily because you have modified it. Good for you, for realizing how the wod as they put it out will lead to overtraining in most people.

Now…if you can only find a way to actually make their message board less of a place for crossfit worship…hmm

[quote]kefu wrote:
Half the time on T-Nation, you either A/ get told how much other people lift B/ that you are a pansy or C/ to eat more.[/quote]

you forgot D/ shut up and lift.

Crossfit tries to wrap all aspects of training (lifting, energy system training, GPP, etc…) into a neat little package. Same with kb’s. From my perspective every WOD is medium/medium-high intensity. Most successful programs follow a high/low scheme. Placing the high-intensity work (sprints, plyos, weights) one day and low-intensity work on the next day (tempo runs, calisthenics, core work). This is the best way for both CNS and muscular recovery.