T Nation

Proteolytic Enzymes


#1

Does anyone know anything about these or had any experience?

I am in a super low carb phase, but I am always extra sore on this diet. I discovered Proteolytic Enzymes in my search to help recovery. I bought them, but I don't seem to tolerate them enough to notice any effect. It turns my "solid waste" not so solid, which is surprising considering my diet at the moment.

My gut health is normally good, with the acceptation of a recent stomach bug that went around the office. Diarrhea wasn't listed as a side effect, so I am pretty confused.


#2

Update, a friend set me on a more appropriate path and rightly explained that if I was just recovering from a stomach flu, introducing new flora is not a good idea. I left them alone for the past 3 months, but just started taking a lower dose 2/3 of the recommended and I seem to be tolerating them. I’d love to hear if anyone has experience with them, all the research seems to be positive-miracle cure.


#3

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
all the research seems to be positive-miracle cure. [/quote]

Then be very afraid. Lol.


#4

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
…all the research seems to be positive-miracle cure. [/quote]

I’ve taken them prior to meals for the last 5-6 years. I found it difficult to process enough food as I got older and certainly think they make a difference. As far as recovery is concerned, I’ve never noticed anything there.

Note: I also take probiotics and a fiber powder.


#5

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
…all the research seems to be positive-miracle cure. [/quote]

I’ve taken them prior to meals for the last 5-6 years. I found it difficult to process enough food as I got older and certainly think they make a difference. As far as recovery is concerned, I’ve never noticed anything there.

Note: I also take probiotics and a fiber powder.
[/quote]

you might want to look into resistant starch (if you haven’t already) for mixing with your fiber powder


#6

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
…all the research seems to be positive-miracle cure. [/quote]

I’ve taken them prior to meals for the last 5-6 years. I found it difficult to process enough food as I got older and certainly think they make a difference. As far as recovery is concerned, I’ve never noticed anything there.

Note: I also take probiotics and a fiber powder.
[/quote]

you might want to look into resistant starch (if you haven’t already) for mixing with your fiber powder[/quote]

I’d be careful with making blanket recommendations, Yogi.

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I found it difficult to process enough food as I got older and certainly think they make a difference.

Note: I also take probiotics and a fiber powder.
[/quote]

It pays to find out the originating cause affecting one’s digestion.
Questions to ask:

  • which macronutrients are hardest to digest? Protein, fat or carbs?
  • is it only one of them?
  • do symptoms only occur when all three of them are combined in sufficient amounts?

Also, Blue is taking proteolytic enzymes, probiotics and fiber supplements.
So, it’s hard to pinpoint from his post alone which of these three alleviates his indigestion the most, which brings us to another question:

  • which supplement helps me the most?

Here’s why it might pay off to be so anal about all of this. And no, this isn’t specifically geared towards the cases of Kraken and Blue. Just take it as my plea for playing detective and against blanket recommendations over the internet. Especially where health is concerned.

  • some folks take proteolytic enzymes (and certain probiotics that have proteolytic properties) while the root cause has been upstream all along: low stomach acid
  • which could be addressed by popping Betaine HCL
  • which in itself could also just be fighting the symptoms instead of a potential root cause: (subclinical) hypothyroidism

Solve that gordian knot and not only will you end up with better digestion, potentially without having to pop a host of (gut) supplements, but also end up with a better hormonal system and health benefits overall.

Have a good one, lads.


#7

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
…all the research seems to be positive-miracle cure. [/quote]

I’ve taken them prior to meals for the last 5-6 years. I found it difficult to process enough food as I got older and certainly think they make a difference. As far as recovery is concerned, I’ve never noticed anything there.

Note: I also take probiotics and a fiber powder.
[/quote]

you might want to look into resistant starch (if you haven’t already) for mixing with your fiber powder[/quote]

I’d be careful with making blanket recommendations, Yogi.

[/quote]

true, which is why I recommended to look into it, not just to add it without having first researched it. I take your point, though.


#8

…the rub here is what one compares their current situation to; or perhaps what one considers normal. I was an early convert to a regimented diet/macro tracking and am approaching my 30th year of serious training. Is it appropriate to compare my metabolism/digestion at 52 to what it was like at 30, or even 40? Most likely no. In my thirties I consumed 4K-4.5K calories per day while remaining relatively lean; and during restrictions rarely dropped below 3.6K. Despite my best efforts, I weigh 8-10 lbs. less at the same level of leanness now than I did at my peak.

I suspect most would agree that a decrease in T levels as a male ages are normal and if I’m unwilling to artificially boost the level some decrease in LBM is to be expected. Research indicates that it isn’t just T levels, but all hormone production that decreases. This is the battle I find myself fighting. I don’t specifically have an indigestion issue. I am attempting to impede my decline and assume that more calories processed will help. I believe FFat is correct that my primary issue is reduced levels of stomach acid. The enzyme sup. I take does contain betaine hcl. and I notice a difference without it. I have not had any TSH or T4 level issues to date. I don’t notice any significant changes if I abstain from the probiotic or fiber(inulin 5g/day) but am unaware of any negative consequence in continuing their use.

Yogi…I’ve been looking into adding potato starch to my protocol, have even purchased it, but haven’t made the addition yet.
FFat…look forward to your input here and on matters in general; as always.


#9

Lemme resurrect this thread.

@BlueCollarTr8n,
I haven’t been to the forums for about 3 months. I still owe you an answer.
See below for my 2 cents.

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
…the rub here is what one compares their current situation to; or perhaps what one considers normal. I was an early convert to a regimented diet/macro tracking and am approaching my 30th year of serious training. Is it appropriate to compare my metabolism/digestion at 52 to what it was like at 30, or even 40? Most likely no. In my thirties I consumed 4K-4.5K calories per day while remaining relatively lean; and during restrictions rarely dropped below 3.6K. Despite my best efforts, I weigh 8-10 lbs. less at the same level of leanness now than I did at my peak.
[/quote]
Depends on what’s appropriate for you.
If you’re willing to accept the natural physical decline even someone with 30 years of training under his belt has to go through, that’s ok.

Not knowing your full supplement regimen, I’d like to suggest you look into the following supplements for LBM perks:

Forskolin

  • improves your nutrient partitioning, especially that of carbs
  • ramps up Thyroid activity

Berberine HCL

  • powerful insuline mimetic agent
  • dramatically improves carb partitioning
  • comes with a host of other benefits
  • downside 1: down-regulates cAMP (in the big scheme of things, I wouldn’t give two shits about it)
  • downside 2: it’s a powerful anti-microbial. Overindulging in it can seriously fuck up your microbiome
  • if you find your right dose, though, this can be a game changer
  • if I were tight on money, I’d go with Berberine HCL - otherwise, I’d use Forskolin

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I suspect most would agree that a decrease in T levels as a male ages are normal and if I’m unwilling to artificially boost the level some decrease in LBM is to be expected. Research indicates that it isn’t just T levels, but all hormone production that decreases. This is the battle I find myself fighting. I don’t specifically have an indigestion issue. I am attempting to impede my decline and assume that more calories processed will help. I believe FFat is correct that my primary issue is reduced levels of stomach acid. The enzyme sup. I take does contain betaine hcl. and I notice a difference without it. I have not had any TSH or T4 level issues to date. I don’t notice any significant changes if I abstain from the probiotic or fiber(inulin 5g/day) but am unaware of any negative consequence in continuing their use.
[/quote]
I’d continue taking Betaine HCL before protein-rich meals.

Concerning TSH, TF and the thyroid in general: it sure is a tricky animal: