Since more reports are coming out that say that Casein is more anabolic than Whey and we already know that Casein is more anticatabolic than Whey is it safe to say that we really won’t need to be using Whey at all soon if this all pans out. I have looked at the amino acid profile of both proteins and Casein really isn’t weaker in any categories except by negligable(did I spell that right) amounts. Also from what I understand the same growth factors everyone talks about being in Whey are also in Casein so that should eliminate that argument as well. The other thought I had was with regards to the fast and slow digestion factor. I asked some people at Johns Hopkins who are working with proteins and they said that 1. Post workout the Casein will be used faster simply because the body is craving nutrients. 2. Since you need more protein to build muscle anyway you can take larger amounts of Casein protein which would give you the benefit of more protein per hour available when it is breaking down. 3. When ingesting just Casein your body uses 30% immediatly anyway so there is no need for Whey as a fast acting protein. I can go on further but I am curious what everyone thinks especially the guys at T-Mag.

I recently completed an article dealing with that exact issue. Hopefully it’ll be out soon.

Yes, casein is better. (How’s that for a comprehensive
response. :slight_smile:

I think Patterson best summarized it: if you need the
immune stimulating properties (like when you are getting
a cold), then use whey. Otherwise, use casein.

Personally, I’ve gotten a lot better response from casein
than whey. But I get most of my protein from dead animals

i know cassein comes from milk, but where can i find it in a powdered form. i haven’t seen it a gnc or anywhere.

I know Dietrich pretty well and he has helped me alot with my workouts,supplemantation and nutrition. I think he has a point and it would certainly make it easier to make protein powders and MRP’s if all a company had to worry about was one kind of protein. I would like to see Dietrich writing for you guys. He has helped so many of us here in Maryland and from people I have talked to he has helped alot of people in the New Jersey-New York area as well.

Ooor, you could use a mix of casein and whey, with more emphasis on casein( ie; Milk Protein). As for casein in powdered form, I haven’t seen. Let me give you a little secret… Cottage cheese protein is almost all casein.

I ould like to see pure micellar casein protein powders available. I have tried pretty much all of the whey powders on the market, and they all seem to give me digestion problems. I feel that the slower absorption and digestion of casein would be easier on my gut, but at the moment I know of no pure micellar casein products available, only mixed proteins and MRPs. I look forward to seeing your article Chris; hey, the casein in GROW! is not undenatured micellar casein is it? Does anyone know?

Sorry Cy, I look forward to reading your article, not Chris’s(although I enjoy his ones too!!).

I look forward to Cy’s article about this issue. I just finished reading some protein literature and Im not convinced that we are barking up the right tree here. Most of the casein research was done as an independent product with no added other proteins, carbs, or fats. How many of us eat like that? Although casein alone is more anticatabolic, whey is more anabolic alone. Im not sure that the responses would be the same in mixed meals. I personally eat large portions of protein every 2 hrs or so. Theoretically if I ate nothing but whey, I could keep a continual superhigh level of quick-digesting and bioavaliable protein (amino acids) in the blood at all times. In the research, the whey induced blood amino acid levels were still higher than the casein PEAK even after 3 hrs. See what I mean? I do think that casein would be best before bed, though, but just dont throw away your whey just yet!

I believe the ProPeptide by Dorian Yates is mostly micellar casein.

John, I think I know about the study you’re referring to. However, did you see that, even though whey stimulated protein synthesis to a greater degree, it also increased oxidation to the point where it was a steady state metabolism, resulting in no increase in overall protein balance? The metabolism of whey is just too fast. I aslo use a study that demostrates caseins superiority to whey in the real world. It wins in every category. I also think that, a combo of whey and casein is the key. With the slow diegestion of casein and the higher BV of whey, it’s a great team! I realize you have a critical eye John, but I think this combo will prove to be the ultimate. BTW, I too consume around 60-100 grams of protein per sitting. We should have a “protein stuffing” contest!

so getting casein into your diet is as easy as eating cottage cheese or drinking milk?

Cottage Cheese = casein… I believe Milk is like 20% whey/ 80% casein.

Yes, I have/do use the ProPeptide by Chemical, which has micellar casein and high fraction whey from concentrate and isolate. I would however like a pure casein product that shakes up easily too for convenience. I hate the taste of low fat cottage cheese by the way. Anyone else?

I know it sounds gross but if you want this awesome
protein just trow in a blender the following ingrediants
cottage cheese(you decide the amount)ice cold water
pineapple slices and a few pieces of bannana.blend for
a WHILE notice I stress while (no lumps please)

From what I here it sounds like a mixture of 60% casine to 40% whey is good for use during the day. Before bed more casine should be used.

cottage cheese is a pretty crappy source of protein. In a 113 gram serving you only get about 13 grams (12%). There is so much casin in most protein powders (because its cheap) I would just use regular protein powders.

Casein in unclotted milk while caseinate is clotted.
The study on casein v whey illustrates that casein must clot
first in the stomach while whey empties immediately after the casein clots.
Clotted casein plus some EFA’s would be ideal after a workout while unclotted casein better before bed.
If you want unclotted casein - BUY NON-FAT MILK POWDER.
Disadvantage - lactose
Advantage - slow digestion
If you want clotted casein (sometimes termed NON-FAT MILK
SOLIDS) - cheese,pizzas and certain powdered beverages.
As far as I’m aware you cannot extract pure unclotted casein
from milk. Until a company comes out with a powder consisting of split lactose and clotted casein (If you want to be adventurous T-Mag here’s a project for you) , get some
non-fat milk powder(dirt cheap),add enzyme tablets to clot
casein then blend with lactaid drops to split lactose.
I much prefer pizzas.