Anyone else seen this? I’m not one to delve into the science end of the training game, and cannot comment on the validity of the study’s approach, but I thought it very interesting especially the conclusion which states:
“In conclusion, current evidence does not appear to support the claim that immediate (â?¤ 1
hour) consumption of protein pre- and/or post-workout significantly enhances strength- or
hypertrophic-related adaptations to resistance exercise. The results of this meta-analysis
indicate that if a peri-workout anabolic window of opportunity does in fact exist, the window
for protein consumption would appear to be greater than one-hour before and after a
resistance training session. Any positive effects noted in timing studies were found to be due
to an increased protein intake rather than the temporal aspects of consumption, but a lack of
matched studies makes it difficult to draw firm conclusions in this regard”.
If you read farther into the report, though, you see this:
“Since causality cannot be directly drawn from our analysis, however, we must acknowledge the possibility that
protein timing was in fact responsible for producing a positive effect and that the associated
increase in protein intake is merely coincidental. Future research should seek to control for
protein intake so that the true value regarding nutrient timing can be properly evaluated.”
I wasn’t sure if I should quote the study at all, and TC’s reply shows why. I wasn’t trying to refute the benefits of peri-workout nutrition, just show that there’s some evidence to support that it may be more about total protein intake spread out over a larger window. If anything, it supports protein pulsing around a larger per-workout window.
If reader’s review the Supplementation table, they will see that very few studies use any kind of advanced protein, and nothing like Biotest’s boutique products. And the various study’s subjects are mostly untrained or recreational lifters.
I still think this is a well written study that laymen can understand and it makes some interesting conclusions. TC’s excerpt is reiterated at least one other time by the authors of the study so don’t sleep on it.
[quote]ickabodd wrote:
I wasn’t sure if I should quote the study at all, and TC’s reply shows why. I wasn’t trying to refute the benefits of peri-workout nutrition, just show that there’s some evidence to support that it may be more about total protein intake spread out over a larger window. If anything, it supports protein pulsing around a larger per-workout window.
[/quote]
It should be noted that it isn’t a study itself, but an analysis of other studies.
IMO, rather than stressing the importance of daily intake, the analysis shows that a peri workout nutrition protocol that isn’t planned in detail and carefully as a part of your whole nutrition doesn’t do much.
Just cause you slam a shake before and after lifting doesn’t mean you’re taking advantage of anything. Those few hours of nutrition are still part of your 24 hour day.
[quote]Sutebun wrote:
It should be noted that it isn’t a study itself, but an analysis of other studies.[/quote]
A peer-reviewed, meta-analysis is not a study in and of itself? Really?
To my knowledge, meta-analysis studies are highly regarded in the scientific community. Among other things, they increase the power of statistical analysis of many individual studies, which improves the precision of the results. I believe they also remove individual study bias along with some other good things.
[quote]Sutebun wrote:
IMO, rather than stressing the importance of daily intake, the analysis shows that a peri workout nutrition protocol that isn’t planned in detail and carefully as a part of your whole nutrition doesn’t do much.
Just cause you slam a shake before and after lifting doesn’t mean you’re taking advantage of anything. Those few hours of nutrition are still part of your 24 hour day.[/quote]
This is a fair critique of the various studies covered by the study, but given the subjects, would you honestly expect another protocol? I bet they didn’t foam roll, or get adequate rest either. And in terms of my post, it’s somewhat of a straw man; I don’t think I said this.
I still think anyone interested in this topic should give this study a read. It’s short, and well-written, which is why I posted it on T-Nation. I’ve learned so much from this site, I wanted to try to repay with something I found of value. I’ve no horse in this game, btw.
I tend to side with the theory that it’s what you cosume throughout the 24 hours is more important that before or after the workout. It’s your overall macros that trumps everything. You can have the perfect peri and post nutrition but if you overall macros and calories are insufficient, this is the largest impediment to progress. I know another respected nutrition expert Alan Aargon agrees with this. I’ve completed multiple times in BB contests and my main concern is what I’m eating throughout the day , including around training.
I didn’t mean to imply that it’s not credible. I just noted the wording because I had different expectations when opening the link.
And I’m not really trying to argue with you…I guess I’m just very jaded towards nutritional studies at the minute. I could go on a lot, but I think it’s suffice to say that it’s incredibly difficult to measure what these articles want to measure.
Here’s a brief summary of the only studies that weren’t done on untrained individuals. Novice trainees will thrive on just about anything, so clearly protein timing is irrelevant for them.
Cribb and Hayes
-23 recreational male BBs
-control group matched for daily protein intake
-3x week, 10 weeks
-strength: greater increase of 1RM in 2/3 exercises vs control
-mass: significant increase vs control
Hoffman et al.
-21 well trained men
-control had lower daily protein
-4x week, 12 weeks
-strength: increase 1RM in bench, but not squat
-mass: no significant differences
Hoffman et al.
-33 well trained men
-control group matched for daily protein intake
-4x week, 12 weeks
strength: no significant differences
mass: no significant differences
EliteFTS ran an article (3 part series) about all the research on peri-workout shakes: “Peri Workout Recovery Supplementation.” Some is more supportive than others, but it’s very well done and I highly recommend it.
Does timing matter? Directly before or is better to carb up directly after? Or is it similar to protein, where it looks like as long as you get your numbers in within 24 hours or so it does not seem to matter? Whats better for performance and whats better for aesthetics??
There is already very thorough research about carbohydrate intake and timing. There is no controversy as to it’s benefits unlike protein timing for hypertrophy/strength. If you are really interested just start a new thread and maybe post a few studies.
[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
There is already very thorough research about carbohydrate intake and timing. There is no controversy as to it’s benefits unlike protein timing for hypertrophy/strength. If you are really interested just start a new thread and maybe post a few studies.[/quote]
True. Glycogen muscle uptake is best post work-out.
Although I am interested to hear from those who use carb back loading, but still train in the mornings.