T Nation

Protein: Some Math!


#22

I’m cutting right now, and thanks to protein being only 4kcals/gram, having a very high thermic value, and having a very high satiety value, I eat 250-350g of protein a day. Believe it or not, your body can render it into energy when it’s not being used to repair tissue.

Plus, protein is critical for the following operations unrelated to synthesis of new muscle tissue:

  • Protein turnover of all body cells, including organ, connective, and adipose tissue.
  • Essential for the production of enzymes, coenzymes, and hormones.
  • Can be used as energy if fat/carb supplies are insufficient.
  • Maintaining bodily nitrogen balance.

Not to mention, females stay in a state of puberty until about age 22 and males until the age of about 25, during which time they have a high requirement for protein since they’re still making relatively major bodily changes.

Not to mention, a high consumption of protein is critical during workouts. Cortisol, a catabolic hormone, is suppressed by protein consumption during high physical stress (i.e. lifting weights) while anabolic hormones (T, IGF-1, GH, insulin) are promoted.

And, like others have said, everyone’s body is different. One friend that I train just doesn’t respond without ridiculous amounts of protein. Why should I tell him to force himself down to a specific, arbitrary number if 450g of protein a day works well for him?

I think you need to lurk more, OP.


#23

Keep shit simple. Just do what works for most people, why debate something that works for most?

1.2 grams of protein per lb of body weight to build muscle or a tad more if you’re not peeing orange (like I do when I’m taking excess protein). Drink normally (i.e. 1 gallon a day) and you’ll be fine.

To be honest I stopped reading most articles. Sometimes it’s better to keep shit simple and do what works for most. In a few words why reinvent the wheel?
BC


#24

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Therizza wrote:
Positive nitrogen balance?
There’s more protein is used for besides skeletal muscle.

/End thread

Thank you, I’m glad someone mentioned positive nitrogen balance. Plus, 4 scoops of whey doesn’t contain 90 grams of BCAAs. [/quote]

Finally, I say something smart! Reading articles and learning shit FTW!


#25

besides you can only digest 20g of protein at a time, so it’s pointless to eat so much of it. It just sticks to your fat stores then you get cellulite. teehee


#26

Making a “rule” such as this one is ridiculous.
First because everyone responds differently to diets and the way nutrients are absorbed.

Take a gorilla for example… If your rule applies, they would be the weakes creatures on earth since they live off fruits and leaves. They can, however, tear a fully grown man appart without even putting effort into it.

I know I know… Its an animal… But still. I have had friends who were on a low protein unhealthy diet did not gain ANY muscle (lost some too). As soon as they upped it to 200-250g, they grew as fast as that damn hair you always have on your left nipple. One of them even gained 40 pounds of rock hard muscle in less than 7 months.


#27

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
besides you can only digest 20g of protein at a time, so it’s pointless to eat so much of it. It just sticks to your fat stores then you get cellulite. teehee[/quote]

Bullshit.


#28

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
besides you can only digest 20g of protein at a time, so it’s pointless to eat so much of it. It just sticks to your fat stores then you get cellulite. teehee

Bullshit.
[/quote]

he was kidding…note the “teehee”


#29

oh… ok my bad.


#30

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
besides you can only digest 20g of protein at a time, so it’s pointless to eat so much of it. It just sticks to your fat stores then you get cellulite. teehee

Bullshit.
[/quote]

I wasn’t going to include the teehee, wondering who would see the absurdity of it. My “teehee” failed even


#31

What is wrong with people…


#32

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
besides you can only digest 20g of protein at a time, so it’s pointless to eat so much of it. It just sticks to your fat stores then you get cellulite. teehee

Bullshit.
[/quote]

Aprentice, another 09 failure…Jehova nice touch teehee


#33

[quote]jacheson wrote:
So glad you signed up.[/quote]

LOLOLOLOLOL

OP how many 200lb Mr. Olympia’s do you know?

Besides you realize that protein can be used as an energy source? and that your body is constantly tearing down and rebuilding muscle as well as very few if any people’s stomach’s effectively absorb 100% of the nutrients they take in.

Do you even understand osmosis, absorption, and chemical reactions? Through these proceses you’ll be lucky if your body absorbs 25% of the protein you put in it. Would you rather your muscles have 25% of 100 grams of protein or 25% of 300 grams of protein?


#34

Well, let’s see.

A pound of muscle contains no more than about a gram of carbohydrates, if that, so to gain one pound of muscle per week, one doesn’t need to consume more than about a gram of carbohydrates per week.

And lean muscle tissue contains, oh, perhaps 30 grams of fat, so we don’t need to consume more than 30 grams of fat per week to add a pound of muscle.

For protein, Tom’s figures make no sense to me because the protein content of 1 lb of muscle is not what he says at all, as muscle is not solid protein, but he says 64 g/day.

So now we have a wonderful new muscle building diet, capable of supporting a pound of muscle growth per week: all you need is 64 g protein per day, 1 g of carbs per week, and about 4 or 5 grams of fat per day.

All built on the same logic.


#35

[quote]tom.birnen wrote:
I’ve been a “long term lurker” but after reading so much sh** (esp. about protein) in the mythbuster 7 discussion thread - I decided to sign up!

Some little math.
Let’s say you build 1 pound of muscle every week - that equals 52 pounds of muscle a year.
1 pound equals 450 g // 52 pound equal 23,5 kg or 23500 g.
A year has 356 days and if you divide the 23500 g of muscle build a year by 365 you get 64 g of muscle build every day.

Ok - now start thinking: do you really believe that you need a protein intake of 300 - 400 g to optimize muscle growth? Well - no! The optimum protein intake for an adult male is about 1 g of protein per kg - so a male adult with 200 pounds (91 kg) needs about 90 g of protein daily.
To the 90 g protein needed add the 64g of protein needed to build the muscles (and add 50% just to feel better) - and you get 90g + 90g = 180 g protein!
There is NO WAY you need 300g to 400g of protein DAILY!

Thank you.

[/quote]

I think you’re forgetting that protein is used for more than just building muscle.


#36

[quote]tom.birnen wrote:
I’ve been a “long term lurker” but after reading so much sh** (esp. about protein) in the mythbuster 7 discussion thread - I decided to sign up!

Some little math.
Let’s say you build 1 pound of muscle every week - that equals 52 pounds of muscle a year.
1 pound equals 450 g // 52 pound equal 23,5 kg or 23500 g.
A year has 356 days and if you divide the 23500 g of muscle build a year by 365 you get 64 g of muscle build every day.

Ok - now start thinking: do you really believe that you need a protein intake of 300 - 400 g to optimize muscle growth? Well - no! The optimum protein intake for an adult male is about 1 g of protein per kg - so a male adult with 200 pounds (91 kg) needs about 90 g of protein daily.
To the 90 g protein needed add the 64g of protein needed to build the muscles (and add 50% just to feel better) - and you get 90g + 90g = 180 g protein!
There is NO WAY you need 300g to 400g of protein DAILY!

Thank you.

[/quote]

IF we actually stored protein instead of using aminos to build metabolic tissues… and if the metabolism wasn’t a dynamic variable, and if we weren’t human and our body did work like this - then yes, you would be right.

I am a fan of mathematics. It is the universal language - and maths can be used to explain all of the processes of the human body (although we have not calculated this in full) - but for you to think that the whole metabolism or physiological use of ingested aminos boils down to this, the most simplest of equations… well, it is insulting.


#37

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, let’s see.

A pound of muscle contains no more than about a gram of carbohydrates, if that, so to gain one pound of muscle per week, one doesn’t need to consume more than about a gram of carbohydrates per week.

And lean muscle tissue contains, oh, perhaps 30 grams of fat, so we don’t need to consume more than 30 grams of fat per week to add a pound of muscle.

For protein, Tom’s figures make no sense to me because the protein content of 1 lb of muscle is not what he says at all, as muscle is not solid protein, but he says 64 g/day.

So now we have a wonderful new muscle building diet, capable of supporting a pound of muscle growth per week: all you need is 64 g protein per day, 1 g of carbs per week, and about 4 or 5 grams of fat per day.

All built on the same logic.
[/quote]

lolololol!! this had me actually laugh out loud!! hjeh


#38

[quote]zraw wrote:
What is wrong with people…[/quote]

They’re stupid…


#39

[quote]tom.birnen wrote:
HerbertNL wrote:
Although the OP’s calculations seem to make sense, this is yet another attempt to create a single rule for something that is different for every person. While your calculation might be correct for most people it won’t be for everyone. I read an article on here by TC or Thibaudeau or some other expert that claimed he did not notice real gains until increasing protein intake to 400gr a day. This does not fit your calculation at all but I am dead sure that he (whoever it was) knew enough about bodybuilding and about his own body to deduce the gains to the increase in protein.

Personally I’d rather take in a little too much protein than not enough, so even though I may not need more than 180gr a day I’m still going to continue taking in 250-300gr a day.

I’m not trying to create a rule or something - I’m just saying that you can’t negate physiological facts/rules.

I’m not saying you should stop eating protein - eat how much you like - if it feels better - go ahead - placebos work great too - but just don’t get obsessed with protein intake and dont advocate it as a “must be” in gaining muscle (I know you didn’t).
[/quote]

How is that a physiological fact/rule? Your numbers are a flimsy, poorly constructed approximation at best. Are you talking wet or dry muscle weight? What about the regulatory (both at the systems and genomic levels) effects of protein/amino acids? These are two huge issues you didn’t address explicitly.

What about the simple “fact” that you don’t build muscle linearly, you do so in spurts. That means some days you probably need more that your calculations show. What would you suggest one do about that?

I’m not saying we need to go batshit like some mid 90’s flex magazine article and pound 500g of protein every day but trying to tell people that a 200 pounder only needs a generous 180 grams of protein like it’s some avant garde concept backed by such astounding physiological reasoning is equally bullshit.


#40

Math…well I could stand on a twisted and bent pillar of truth by stating thus: Red Blood cells are the most abundant type of cell in the body and they do not participate in protein synthesis. So the majority of the trillions of cells in your body don’t even need protein, so why worry about it? It’s true, but it’s not accurate.


#41

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, let’s see.

A pound of muscle contains no more than about a gram of carbohydrates, if that, so to gain one pound of muscle per week, one doesn’t need to consume more than about a gram of carbohydrates per week.

And lean muscle tissue contains, oh, perhaps 30 grams of fat, so we don’t need to consume more than 30 grams of fat per week to add a pound of muscle.

For protein, Tom’s figures make no sense to me because the protein content of 1 lb of muscle is not what he says at all, as muscle is not solid protein, but he says 64 g/day.

So now we have a wonderful new muscle building diet, capable of supporting a pound of muscle growth per week: all you need is 64 g protein per day, 1 g of carbs per week, and about 4 or 5 grams of fat per day.

All built on the same logic.
[/quote]

yeppers. On the same logic the velocity diet is a hardcore bulking diet. I wonder what would be the macronutrient breakdown of a proposed cutting diet from the OP :confused: