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protein-only meal (Joel, Jason and others)

Anyone do this for breakfast? Protein will be about 50% oxidized as carbs. Assuming you have enough liver glycogen, I think you can still get a good workout and with BCAA and glucose during training, some fat oxidation. I know when you wake up the fatty acids levels in your blood are high. A P+C breakfast is only going to lay them down again.

Can someone elaborate more on this???

yeah what r u trying to say?

I’m confused.

whats your point though? i think ur onto something, but i cant really understand what point ur trying to make. clarify please?

To clarify… When utilizing the protein it needs, The body oxidizes 48% of it as glucose, for energy. (I think excess protein will be oxidized as 50% carbs and 50% fats). So a protein-only meal will still raise insulin to shuttle aminos to the muscles. Every morning there are all these fatty acids floating around in your bloodstream because of the hormonal conditions during sleep. If you eat a protein+carb meal at this point, insulin raises and these fatty acids redeposit themselves as bodyfat. However, a meal of protein and fat–or maybe just protein–will not have this effect. I’m theorizing that if you work out after this breakfast, between sets you can be burning fatty acids. Carbs taken during training will be used for glycogen replenishment and muscle contraction. This makes training a nice transition point to P+C meals, because a workout will have burned most of the fatty acids in the blood so carb intake won’t lay them back down. 6 hours later, after the increased insulin sensitivity from exercise subsides, switch to P+F meals. Maybe this is an ideal way to use bodyfat as you gain muscle. Is this clearer? The questions are (1) will you have enough liver glycogen to have a good workout; (2) does a protein only meal raise insulin enough to redeposit the fatty acids, like a P+C meal; and (3) how well will the workout clear fatty acids from the bloodstream.

Guys, assault my logic, please.

Cardio, yes. Weight training, no. The morning is not the optimal time resistance train, but if its the only time that you have, then you’ll probably need to consume more carbs than normal. I have recommended consuming BCAA’s and Glutamine pre cardio in the morning to minimize catabolism and keep allow u to burn the fatty acids in the blood. Also, taking an EC stack at this time will help to mobilize even more fatty acids to be burned during the exercise session.

I completely understand your purpose and most of your logic.

In theory, after sleep our glycogen levels will be lower (but this also depends on your overall carbohydrate intake throughout the day). Thus, with lower glycogen levels, we are likely to rely more on fat metabolism to supply our energy needs.

Ok, although I hear what you are saying about being careful of consuming food that will cause insulin release for fear of storing the free fatty acids in the blood as body fat, I just don't think it will make that much of a difference.

As for oxidizing the protein that you just ate, this is a definate possibility, but the preferred fuel sources will still be carbs and fat that just need to be released from storage, unless you ingest a BCAA mix which is readily oxidized for energy.

Obviously, manipulating energy intake beyond just cals in for the day and cals out for the day is an interesting concept. I'm sure that you can break down your day and time your nutrient intake appropriately to create the most anabolic environment as possible when the time is right and also a catabolic environment when the time is right all within the same day. I think you are on to something, but I'm just not sure that the results will be significant enough to warrant the time and effort of timing all your meals and manipulating the calorie intake. To a certain extent, many of us do this already by eating all of our carbs in the 3-6 hours after exercise and going with PF meals the rest of the day. Sorry for the lack of an exact answer. I think your idea has some validity, but I'm not sure that the mechanism you are trying to explain is the correct one.

Thanks, guys. Jason, I think you’re right that whether this is truly efficient is a major question. Perhaps it’s just the nature of Berardi’s Massive Eating program that the first P+C meal is going to lay down the fatty acids in the bloodstream. On the other hand, would an all-protein meal make an optimal transition from sleep or morning P+F meals to P+C meals? Interesting point: I’ve been reading all these studies that look at the insulin release of various protein POWDERS and they’re all extremely high (probably owing to leucine and a couple other AAs), just like a P+C meal.

One of the most important things to note is that the insulin index and the glycemic index of foods is really only a guideline and while we can generally lean towards appropriate choices, it is very hard to break our metabolism down on a meal by meal basis or an exercise session by exercise session basis.

How high is the insulin release for a protein powder only meal?

The relation between proteins and insulin comes from the the still vague “insulin index.” The only data I have found on powders comes on testing for hydrolysates in “Plasma Glucagon and Insulin Responses Depend on the Rate of Appearance of Amino Acids after Ingestion of Different Protein Solutions in Humans–Jose A. L. Calbet and Dave A. MacLean” “To find out whether the hormonal response to feeding with protein solutions is influenced by the nature and degree of protein fractionation, we examined insulin and glucagon responses after intake of protein solutions containing the same amount of
nitrogen (2.9 g each) in three men and three women. Four test meals (600 mL) [glucose (419 kJ/L), pea (PPH) and whey peptide hydrolysates (WPH) (921 and 963 kJ/L, respectively) and a cow’s milk solution (MS) containing complete milk proteins (2763 kJ/L)] were tested. Peptide hydrolysates elicited a faster increase in venous plasma amino acids than did MS (P < 0.05). Despite the higher carbohydrate content of the MS, the peptide hydrolysates elicited a peak insulin response that was two and four times greater than that evoked by the MS and glucose solutions, respectively (P < 0.05). The insulin response was closely related to the increase in plasma amino acids, especially leucine, isoleucine, valine, phenylalanine and arginine, regardless of the rate of gastric emptying.” …