Protein is Insulinogenic

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
Finished reading the latest article by the great mind of TC.
He stated that protein is insulinogenic. This blew my mind, first time I have heard anything like this.
I do a lot of protein pulses thruout the day when I work. I’m on a paleo diet so my carbs are limited anyway.

Is there an article on this that I’ve missed or could someone provide me with some more information?[/quote]

Any food ingested will cause some form of insulin response! Further, this response will be intensified following a fasting period, Again, a fast digesting protein rich in leucine used during a fasted period will produce a potent insulin response.

A whey isolate I use has 10g leucine per 100g. That yeilds around 2.5g per serving. I tend to add leucine separately to this, since it is relatively cheap to buy as a single amino acid.

I prefer hydrolysed whey or casein when I can afford it. I have just checked the amino profile of each and actually hydro whey has 11g leucine per 100g; compared with 7.5g per 100g hydro casein (PeptoPro).

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
A whey isolate I use has 10g leucine per 100g. That yeilds around 2.5g per serving. I tend to add leucine separately to this, since it is relatively cheap to buy as a single amino acid.

I prefer hydrolysed whey or casein when I can afford it. I have just checked the amino profile of each and actually hydro whey has 11g leucine per 100g; compared with 7.5g per 100g hydro casein (PeptoPro). [/quote]

Indeed, the real benefit of hydro casein over hydrowhey is actually the insulin “spike” which is higher due to the AA make up of the casein. So if your Looking for the super duper fastest most amazing protein ever - going for the casien, mix in some leucine (or by MAG-10). If your looking for a budget protein that will do the job pretty damn well (better than isolates and blends) but not as efficiently as casein, go for hydro whey and mix in some leucine.

EDIT

Also want to add something to the OP. All the posts here have some great correct information. Something to bare in mind is that everything you eat is insulinogenic to a point (different foods produce different patterns of secretion)- and thats not inherently unhealthy, Your body needs to sense/process/store nutrients. What IS unhealthy is a chronic elevation of insulin when its not needed (like in an untrained individual eating pizza and drinking coke all day long.)

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Some amino acids can increase insulin but not like carbs.

Dude, thinking about a cheeseburger can release insulin.

http://www.jbc.org/content/264/4/2037.short

Actually, if I’m not mistaken, a steak will create a larger insulin response than numerous carbs. If I’m wrong, correct me, but that information can be found on any insulin index type chart.

I don’t know anything about the insulin index but that’s pretty interesting if it’s even partially true. Which could potentially mean certain individuals have higher or lower digestive properties for certain foods. A lot like fast and slow oxidizers towards coffee or simply Nutrigenomics.

[quote]Fulford wrote:

I don’t know anything about the insulin index but that’s pretty interesting if it’s even partially true. Which could potentially mean certain individuals have higher or lower digestive properties for certain foods. A lot like fast and slow oxidizers towards coffee or simply Nutrigenomics.[/quote]

http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf

Professor X, did you see a larger effect when dieting or gainig as to your Leucine intake?

Im new to this site, but i really think that standard bodybuilding theory of 5-6 meals a day is the right way to go unless you have somewhat diabetic concerns

Personally i also belive solid meal > protein shakes

I’m missing all the value of this thread and i really wanna grasp it. Can i PM with someone that understands whats going on please. Any volinteers

[quote]Marcello wrote:
Professor X, did you see a larger effect when dieting or gainig as to your Leucine intake?
[/quote]

Dieting.

Right now is my first time “gaining” using the same products.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Fulford wrote:

I don’t know anything about the insulin index but that’s pretty interesting if it’s even partially true. Which could potentially mean certain individuals have higher or lower digestive properties for certain foods. A lot like fast and slow oxidizers towards coffee or simply Nutrigenomics.[/quote]

http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf[/quote]

This is an excellent study that backs up what I said, thanks X. There is very little variation between average carbs and protein sources. There is much smaller variation between all foods than most people are made to think.

protein is also glucagonogenic, ie, it causes you to release glucagon as well. metabolism is two-sided; both sides work together, finely balanced as long as you don’t have diabetes or something similar. all protein does is stimulate metabolism as a whole, resulting in insulin AND glucagon release. don’t think about it as anabolic vs catabolic or anything like that, the changes are mostly to keep your blood sugar levels stable. your body will store what it can or needs, and the rest will get excreted.

(holy crap i just noticed i hit level 5…)

[quote]antman wrote:

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
A whey isolate I use has 10g leucine per 100g. That yeilds around 2.5g per serving. I tend to add leucine separately to this, since it is relatively cheap to buy as a single amino acid.

I prefer hydrolysed whey or casein when I can afford it. I have just checked the amino profile of each and actually hydro whey has 11g leucine per 100g; compared with 7.5g per 100g hydro casein (PeptoPro). [/quote]

Indeed, the real benefit of hydro casein over hydrowhey is actually the insulin “spike” which is higher due to the AA make up of the casein. So if your Looking for the super duper fastest most amazing protein ever - going for the casien, mix in some leucine (or by MAG-10). If your looking for a budget protein that will do the job pretty damn well (better than isolates and blends) but not as efficiently as casein, go for hydro whey and mix in some leucine.

[/quote]
I wouldn’t dispute that. However, I’m not sure if there has been enough research done so far regarding the exact merits of hydro casein over hydro whey. Given the price difference, it’s hard to see past the whey version - especially when you can add leucine to it again without much additional expense.

It also appears that if you’re into protein pulsing then the merits of both diminish over the course of the day. Berardi quoted some research regarding this, i.e. hyperaminocidemia levels quickly taper off after successive protein ‘spikes’. That’s why I personally think a decent whey isolate is useful, all things considered, for a pulse when relatively fasted.

[quote]AspiringTank wrote:

[quote]Mike T. wrote:

[quote]corstijeir wrote:

[quote]AspiringTank wrote:
Just took a look at the leucine product that T-Nation is selling. It contains 2,1 grams of leucine per serving. When I’m already getting 16 grams a day it seems pretty stupid to buy it. Am I missing something? Just trying to learn here.[/quote]

Go back to 2008, read every post about l-leucine since then.

Lots of people will talk about how much they like L-leucine.

Adding L-leucine to protein, that is l-leucine not bound to the protein, makes that protein more easily synthesized.

Sure you can get l-leucine from your protein powder, but it’s not as easily available as the pure form ADDED separately. I know it seems stupid- but really I’ve never heard of someone actually taking Biotest l-leucine and not liking the result. It’s not an instant result, takes a few weeks, but you can tell when you’re on it and when you’re not.[/quote]

I agree, I felt the strongest when I was taking a BCAA supplement.

Second I’ve never seen a whey powder contain 9.38 grams of leucine. What brand are you using?

I’d like to also add that there are some interesting comments left on my topic and I appreciate the knowledge passed down.
[/quote]

I live in Sweden and use a local brand that you can’t get in the US. But every whey product should contain around that amount. I just checked another normal whey powder for sale here and it actually says 11,8 g of leucine per 100 gram. What product have you checked that contains less?[/quote]

Somehow I missed the fact that you were referring to per 100 grams. A serving is usually 25 to 30ish grams, so my brain just went ahead and did the assumption thing.

[quote]Rusty Barbell wrote:
protein is also glucagonogenic, ie, it causes you to release glucagon as well. metabolism is two-sided; both sides work together, finely balanced as long as you don’t have diabetes or something similar. all protein does is stimulate metabolism as a whole, resulting in insulin AND glucagon release. don’t think about it as anabolic vs catabolic or anything like that, the changes are mostly to keep your blood sugar levels stable. your body will store what it can or needs, and the rest will get excreted.

(holy crap i just noticed i hit level 5…)[/quote]

Yes, protein stimulates BOTH insulin AND glucago; carb stimulates only insulin. Dr. Barry Sears covers this extensively in the original Zone diet book; check your local public library.

Prof you have aroused my curosity about leusine , what brand do you use, and amount per daily basis, to the Protein issue, protein isnt going to stimulate Insuline response as would a carb would. I guess I’m a little confused about the issue to amino acids and Insulin, please help me understand, I might be missing something.