Protein Is an Over-Hyped Nutrient

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

So protein is only well-utilized by steroid users? Not sure what you’re getting at. A geared athlete’s muscles are still made of the same shit as a natty’s, and still work the same way.

I dont see how you can over-hype the most important nutrient in bodybuilding.

See what happens if you eat 500g of carbs or fats a day, every day, vs. 500 g of protein. [/quote]

You are being a overly defensive - maybe you are frustrated because you are not seeing the results you want to following traditional bodybuilding lore…?

It’s not the most important nutrient in bodybuilding. In fact, this is the kind of thinking that dumbs people down.

Eat all the protein you want! in the absence of other nutrients protein doesn’t do anything to help you build muscle.

22

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

So protein is only well-utilized by steroid users? Not sure what you’re getting at. A geared athlete’s muscles are still made of the same shit as a natty’s, and still work the same way.

I dont see how you can over-hype the most important nutrient in bodybuilding.

See what happens if you eat 500g of carbs or fats a day, every day, vs. 500 g of protein. [/quote]

You are being a overly defensive - maybe you are frustrated because you are not seeing the results you want to following traditional bodybuilding lore…?

It’s not the most important nutrient in bodybuilding. In fact, this is the kind of thinking that dumbs people down.

Eat all the protein you want! in the absence of other nutrients protein doesn’t do anything to help you build muscle.[/quote]

In the absence of protein, other nutrients arent going to build muscle either.

Im seeing great results, actually just started working with the mighty stu cutting down over the next few months, and we think things are going great. Dont read into things too much. You’re not as smart as you think.

Its not frustrating to me as much as it is ridiculous. If you wanna play by some imaginary rule where x number of protein is all you need, be my guest. Rather have too much than potentially choose to limit myself with too little.

Anything you can say about the insignificance of protein when it comes to building muscle can be said about any other nutrient. Protein is a pretty big piece of the pie bud.

23

[quote]

If all I had to do was consume protein and lift heavy weights I would have been elite 20 years ago.[/quote]

It is “all” you need to do. A solid protein and fat based diet with a half decent strength program and a well thought out recovery protocol = awesomeness.

The problem is that while it sounds easy, it’s not because it takes an enormous amount of mental discipline to do EVERYTHING consistently.

Train heavy but don’t bother to ice and massage = injury.

Eat big but don’t train till you can’t stand up = fat bastard.

Train and eat but party all night = skinny and weak.

Is protein over hyped? Probably, because sure as shit everything else is overhyped on the innerwebs. A site like this needs daily articles to keep the traffic turning over. After about 6 months you have run out of relevant material. So, they tend to overhype obvious stuff. If you visited this site 5 years ago, it actually was interesting. Now it’s a mess of supp pimping.

24

[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:

Can you point to one big person who eats that way? Srs.

25

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Anything you can say about the insignificance of protein when it comes to building muscle can be said about any other nutrient. Protein is a pretty big piece of the pie bud. [/quote]

1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.

26

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

Can you point to one big person who eats that way? Srs.[/quote]

It isn’t that they are consuming the extra protein but rather they are consuming extra calories, in general.

Anyone can get big. Just eat and lift heavy weights.

Most of us, however, don’t want to look like potbellied powerlifters and that is what I think too much protein does - especially whey protein.

27

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Anything you can say about the insignificance of protein when it comes to building muscle can be said about any other nutrient. Protein is a pretty big piece of the pie bud. [/quote]

1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

LOL are you under the impression thats how it works?

I feel stupid even engaging you in conversation now.

28

Oh? What about the protein do you think attributes to power lifters having a potbelly?

29

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

Can you point to one big person who eats that way? Srs.[/quote]

It isn’t that they are consuming the extra protein but rather they are consuming extra calories, in general.

Anyone can get big. Just eat and lift heavy weights.

Most of us, however, don’t want to look like potbellied powerlifters and that is what I think too much protein does - especially whey protein.[/quote]

You either have selective memory or have just blatantly ignored so much that was laid out for you in this thread. What you “believe” protein does, is completely incorrect. Dont ask me to elaborate, go back and read what others said.

The beginners forum would be a good place for you.

30

[quote]DSSG wrote:
Oh? What about the protein do you think attributes to power lifters having a potbelly? [/quote]

It’s really fast absorbing on top of providing excessive calories.

31

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Anything you can say about the insignificance of protein when it comes to building muscle can be said about any other nutrient. Protein is a pretty big piece of the pie bud. [/quote]

1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

LOL are you under the impression thats how it works?

I feel stupid even engaging you in conversation now. [/quote]

So you are basically saying the second law of thermodynamics is incorrect.

Why would a person need to eat more amino acids than could actually make new cell tissue?

edited

32

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

I’d just like to point out here protein eaten doesn’t just go straight into muscle, some will be used as energy, some will go to repairs, some will just pass straight through you. The fact that you’re exercising will bump up the repairs bill, thus already altering whatever baseline you’d have when you weren’t trying to build muscle.

As to exactly how much goes to what activities, I suppose that’d be up for debate.

33

[quote]238 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

I’d just like to point out here protein eaten doesn’t just go straight into muscle, some will be used as energy, some will go to repairs, some will just pass straight through you. The fact that you’re exercising will bump up the repairs bill, thus already altering whatever baseline you’d have when you weren’t trying to build muscle.

As to exactly how much goes to what activities, I suppose that’d be up for debate.[/quote]

Exactly. Obviously not every gram of protein you eat turns straight into new muscle tissue.

34

[quote]238 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

I’d just like to point out here protein eaten doesn’t just go straight into muscle, some will be used as energy, some will go to repairs, some will just pass straight through you. The fact that you’re exercising will bump up the repairs bill, thus already altering whatever baseline you’d have when you weren’t trying to build muscle.

As to exactly how much goes to what activities, I suppose that’d be up for debate.[/quote]

Right, which is why I say “above a baseline”. We have a need to replace some amino acids occasionally because they eventually degrade. The rate at which each of them decays is different. Proteins are continually being turned over and resynthesized regardless of how many amino acids we consume.

If the amino acids that end up in our bloodstream cannot be synthesized into new proteins some will go to gluconeogenesis and some will go to lipogenesis.

35

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]238 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

I’d just like to point out here protein eaten doesn’t just go straight into muscle, some will be used as energy, some will go to repairs, some will just pass straight through you. The fact that you’re exercising will bump up the repairs bill, thus already altering whatever baseline you’d have when you weren’t trying to build muscle.

As to exactly how much goes to what activities, I suppose that’d be up for debate.[/quote]

Right, which is why I say “above a baseline”. We have a need to replace some amino acids occasionally because they eventually degrade. The rate at which each of them decays is different. Proteins are continually being turned over and resynthesized regardless of how many amino acids we consume.

If the amino acids that end up in our bloodstream cannot be synthesized into new proteins some will go to gluconeogenesis and some will go to lipogenesis.[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve said, but what would you say that baseline is? I’m struggling to think of a baseline where that protein intake of 25 grams/day would be sufficient, short of an idealised world where no protein is ever consumed for energy and muscle/protein broken down from exercise is 100% recycled as new muscle.

36

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]DSSG wrote:
Oh? What about the protein do you think attributes to power lifters having a potbelly? [/quote]

It’s really fast absorbing on top of providing excessive calories.[/quote]
So why does it get stored any different than excess fats or carbohydrates? And why do you think that powerlifters consume more protein than bodybuilders? http://bogatyr.su/IMG_0133.jpg http://www.powersportsclub.com.au/sites/default/files/images/mattkr.jpg http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/dave-outside.jpg Power lifters just have really fucking thick torsos from fat (of course they are going to be fat or have some fat if they compete at a somewhat high/high weight class) and the abdominal muscles needed for heavy deadlifts, squats, and the accessory exercises along with all of the direct work.

None of the people I posted pictures of had excessive fat on the stomach, and still had very large and thick stomachs.

37

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Anything you can say about the insignificance of protein when it comes to building muscle can be said about any other nutrient. Protein is a pretty big piece of the pie bud. [/quote]

1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

yer more like 0.5-1 pound a week. if your lucky.

38

[quote]238 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]238 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
1 Kg of lean muscle tissue only has about 170g of proteins. The rest is water and a tiny bit of inorganic nutrients.

What is a reasonable amount of new muscle one can expect to gain in a week, sans AA substances? 1 kg, maybe?

That seems HUGE to me but let’s go with it: one would only need to eat 25g more of proteins per day above a baseline - that’s less than an average sized pork chop per day.[/quote]

I’d just like to point out here protein eaten doesn’t just go straight into muscle, some will be used as energy, some will go to repairs, some will just pass straight through you. The fact that you’re exercising will bump up the repairs bill, thus already altering whatever baseline you’d have when you weren’t trying to build muscle.

As to exactly how much goes to what activities, I suppose that’d be up for debate.[/quote]

Right, which is why I say “above a baseline”. We have a need to replace some amino acids occasionally because they eventually degrade. The rate at which each of them decays is different. Proteins are continually being turned over and resynthesized regardless of how many amino acids we consume.

If the amino acids that end up in our bloodstream cannot be synthesized into new proteins some will go to gluconeogenesis and some will go to lipogenesis.[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve said, but what would you say that baseline is? I’m struggling to think of a baseline where that protein intake of 25 grams/day would be sufficient, short of an idealised world where no protein is ever consumed for energy and muscle/protein broken down from exercise is 100% recycled as new muscle.[/quote]

Thats the point, there is no baseline where it just “works” that way. Otherwise, BB’ers would have found it long ago and would gain at incredible pace. This guy is basically saying that protein intake follows the same laws as caloric intake, where once you are above maintenance you will gain a lb for every 3500 cals. It doesnt work that way.

39

[quote]238 wrote:
I agree with what you’ve said, but what would you say that baseline is? I’m struggling to think of a baseline where that protein intake of 25 grams/day would be sufficient, short of an idealised world where no protein is ever consumed for energy and muscle/protein broken down from exercise is 100% recycled as new muscle.[/quote]

That’s the real debate. I think everyone will have differing needs that isn’t just based on body weight.

I use my hunger to determine my needs.

40

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
This guy is basically saying that protein intake follows the same laws as caloric intake, where once you are above maintenance you will gain a lb for every 3500 cals. It doesnt work that way. [/quote]

That is not what I am saying.

Fist of all, one pound of muscle is less than 3500 cal (you are confusing muscle with fat). One pound of lean muscles is only roughly 280 calories. Obviously one must consume much more energy than 280 calories to gain one pound of muscle. How much more is different for every person.

Still, it only requires a specific amount of additional amino acids to put on lean mass outside of the energy requirement to do it (which can come from different macronutrients than just protein).