T Nation

Protein article by Cy

This question is for Cy. I read your article on protein types yesterday and I noticed one thing. The whole whey vs cas debate seems to center on one issue: cas takes a lot longer to get into the blood stream and is therefore more anticatabolic. From what I gathered from that article was that whey is basically superior or equal to cas in every way except its absorbed much faster and therefore lasts a lot less time in the blood stream. You then went on to say that combining it with carbs and fat would probably slow it down sufficiently to equal cas time in the stomach. Since most people eat their whey with either carbs or fat or both, doesnt this kinda seem like an obvious point? The article tries to make cas seem like such a superior form of protein when the difference is really in just one quality. Granted, slow absorbtion and the anticatabolism that comes with it is a big quality, but its just one quality. Was there really a need for such melodrama in the article for just one difference??

Okay mister smarty pants. Look here. While I theorized that whey plus carbs and fat may, and may is the key word here, equal or come close to equaling the anti-catabolic effects of casein, that certainly doesn’t make it fact. Oh, and casein isn’t technically more anabolic than whey. It just provides more lean tissue accretion in the end. I recommended that a combo of whey and casein be taken, since they both compliment what the other lacks. The key study that backs up the obvious difference in terms of effects was extensively reviewed about in my article. A whey and casein supplement was added with normal food, like fat and carbs, like you were saying, yet casein still kicked whey’s ass in every parameter. Oh, and anti-catabolic qualities aren’t that important? Come on! That’s a major reason why steroids do such a wonderful job. Nuff said.

Jason, do you work for a Biotest competitor? Or are you just
having a bad day? I liked the article and found the melodrama entertaining. The only thing I would add
is a plug for GROW, as it is exactly the blend of casein and whey you want!

Long Live Biotest!

Let the new era of Androsol and Pro-steroids begin!

Cy, thanks for your response. I didn’t mean to imply that being anti-catabolic was unimportant, all I meant was that the article seemed awfully melodramatic and long winded to prove just one point. Don’t take my message personally. I wasn’t trying to be arrogant or put your article down. I just didn’t want people to freak out after reading the article because they got the false inpression that cas was the king and whey was garbage. I could just see people panicking throwing out all their whey based protein powders and scrambling to buy cas because they read the article wrong. I agree that having anti-catabolic properties is very important as half the battle in bodybuilding is KEEPING the muscle we already have along with building new muscle. I order my protein from a place on the net that allows me to customize my blend. What do you think is a good ratio of cas to whey? What do you think of the idea of throwing in some milk protein to further slow down the absorbtion? Ohh and by the way, how the hell did a 19 year old get such a sweet job?

Wolfgang,
No I don’t work for a Biotest competitor. I’m actually a long time client of bioest and a long time fan of the mag. Beleive or not, its possible to both like biotest and t-mag and to make constructive critisisms. You don’t need to go on the offensive as soon as someone makes a mildly critical comment. I wasn’t making an anti-bioest or anti-tmag comment, I think t-mag is the best bodybuilding company in the world. That being said, I also beleive in open dialogue. We’re all friends here bud. We’re all here for the sam reason; to talk about bodybuilding, t-mag and bioest test. Thanks.

I’m on the Anabolic Diet and i’ve been looking for a good protein supplement to hold me over till low carb Grow! comes out… And by the way, I’m not sure about Cy, but I’ve seen Tim Patterson write several times that the optimal ratio of casein:whey is 60:40.

Met-Rx rules!!!

I never said that anyone should throw out their whey in place of casein. I simply said that the idea of whey being the only supplemental protein for one’s diet was ill-founded. Since, casein actually outperformed it. I also explained that a combo of the two would be best. The ratio of casein to whey depends on your goals. When dieting, I think you should have a higher ratio, possibly as high as 8-2. When trying to “bulk up”, try a 4-6 or 6-4. Somewhere in that range.

Well said Jason!!