T Nation

Proposed Safe Oral Only


^^This is to mellow most people saying 'Oh shit, not another oral only'.

The following is not for me. I haven't the money and I'd rather run some test alone rather then the following. Bdw I threw away the superdrol I received. Was still sealed. Not bloody worth the hassle.

This is a 'just for shit and giggles' cycle. I was bored and well I thought about doing a draft oral only cycle. I noticed a lot of people at my gym doing Dianabol or Anadrol only cycle for weeks just to loose everything, and some of those idiots ended up messing up their liver (one actually ran anadrol at 150mg/week for close to 6 months non stop. Of course he didn't know what the hell PCT means.

Anyway as an oral only, I was thinking the only real viable orals are two:

1) oral turinabol (which is 17-alkylated)
2) 4-AD (4-AD-EC is virtually impossible to find around here)

Most of these fellas tend to run cycles for weeks on end. Most of them are idiots, won't listen to anyone, and in essence, well, they are stupid. But I did notice something. For them:

  1. Money is no problem
  2. As long as they are taking 'something' and see results, they are happy.
  3. Most of them are scared shitless of needles
  4. They are idiots

I think it's obvious that 4-AD (forget primo tabs, won't find em around here), is the only viable alternative since it isn't 17 alkylated. It's rate of absorption according to my research is of about 15%. This 15% is converted into testosterone right? So, I tought about proposing those fellas the following cycle:

Week 1 and 2: 2000mg 4AD ED

Week 3: 1 week tamoxifen citrate (nolvadex) at 40mg ED

The above is repeated for 3 times. but the last week will involve an additional 2 weeks at 20mg nolvadex.Then a 3 week off protocol will be introduced. (Pronbably some tribulus will be proposed to these fella. Chances are they won't resist not being on anything...Arimidex used sparingly if required through the cycle.

Basically the user will end up absorbing just over 2000 x (15/100) = 300mg of 4AD per day. Which from my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) these 300mg will be converted into test.

Virtually from what I can understand this cycle can be repeated over and over again, since liver stress isn't an issue.

Me thinks it's a pretty shitty cycle for its cost. But you gotta understand that these guys are well. Idiots. At least they won't ruin their liver.



The stuff sold as "4-AD" now is not 4-AD.

Just so you know.


Also exactly why you think Turinabol is not liver toxic, I don't know.

Unless you are likewise referring to something sold as "Turinabol" that is not?


I think I didn't express myself clearly. also excuse my english, I meant 'Turinabol'. I chose 4-AD over oral Turinabol (4-chloro-17ß-hydroxy-17a-methylandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one) since Turinabol is 17-alkylated, 4-AD is not. Should have been clearer. My bad.

EDIT: edited the original post as I have taken for granted that most would have taken my choice of 4-AD over Turinabol as 'obvious' as to avoid liver problems....these guys use orals for very long period of times.


The old 'Advanced Muscle science' 4AD should be fine tough if they can find it that is. correct me if I'm wrong. If the above cycle is crap I'll ditch the idea. All I want is to give some solid advise to these guys.


Oh, I misinterpreted and thought that you were counting Turinabol as a viable oral for some special safety property.

Which it doesn't have.

Actually, while I and many have used it without problem, the evidence available from a large number of users under controlled conditions -- namely the report of usage by the East Germans in athletics -- shows that it is less safe than the oral pharmaceutical steroids that have been sold in the United States, or sold elsewhere as pharmaceuticals and seeing medical use.

Not saying one can't use it, but viewing it as safer would not be right.

The stuff sold by Advanced Muscle Science as "4-AD" is not 4-androstenediol, the compound which is known by that name. A more accurate name would be 4-androsterone.

I would not believe the conversion claims made by the seller.

By the way, there's a supplement company that actually names or has named one of their products Dianabol. And not with some mis-spelling, as has been a common trick of a number of outfits, but spelled exactly that way. Of course it isn't Dianabol, but apparently that is no impediment. Why the FTC doesn't go after these companies for deceptive marketing practices I don't know. But that is a sidetrack.

An "11-testosterone" product would be a better choice than that, whether you pick ours or not.


That, sir was one solid advice. To be honest I didn't know that the chemical compound had been altered, I was going to tell them stick with old bottles 'just to be safe'. 4-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one should be the right chemical compound me thinks. Anyway I'll tell them that 11-T is a better alternative then. Thanks again.


aka Herbal bull crap. Yep deceptive marketing at its best. Even worse is naming a prohormone after some popular steroid to attract customers.


Well, it's the right name for the compound that is deceptively being called 4-AD.

The substance that has been known as 4-AD and which was a good prohormome, if enough was taken and particularly when bioavailability was also improved, was 4-androstene-3b,17b-diol.

Glad the previous was of any help.


When 4-AD was banned it made it much more difficult to stack PH's.

The other non-methylated oral PH is Bold 200 or 400 or something like that.

It does convert to boldenone as far as I am aware, you just have to dose it very high to get a decent dose.

And even then your running a bold only cycle at a moderate dose at best...so..yeah

Its a waste of time trying to run orals only.

If the user is a complete pussy he can just shoot once a week with a long ester, and see decent results.

Although the concentrations will be erratic compared to EOD.

Anavar on its own is "ok" for cutting or minor strength gains.

Winny on its own is "ok" for the same reasons as above.

OT on its own is fine, not the most effective use of it, but the gains don't disappear rapidly like with a dbol only cycle, there just aren't many gains.

Primo on its own is fine, very weak, but works.

The thing is combining it with just a little test skyrockets the effectiveness or most orals. So oral only is really a big waste.


Hmmmm. Not to change subject but I have been on Cy Willson's 'Never ending cycle' with 4-AD (I been using the deceptive compound it seems i.e. 4-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one ). at 200mg per day in the early morning.

I have seen no results what so ever. Either the dose is too low, the product is expired, or this shit is in actual fact....shit. Wonderful I got scammed. In fact this stuff has also clearly DHEA. Fuck Prohormones. Nah I'll tell em they're better off using 11-T then. That's the best advice I can give then. Thanks Bill. Seriously.


No problem, definitely.

That dose would be a no-hoper with the compound in question. I don't know if there is any dose whatsoever that is reasonably effective, but for sure 200 mg could not be.


The more I read these boards, the more I learn, and the more I understand that it's hard to come over a decent company. (I love you Biotest for being loyal)

4-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one ....wait a sec..............this reminds me of DHEA....hmmm...4AD as advertised nowadays is probably BS then.

Ok, and Westclock, roger that bro. Damn I love these boards. The learning curve here is endless. :smiley:


The double bond is in a different position than with DHEA: that is the only difference. You are spot-on in the close relation between the two.


Ok. In the end this is what I have learned from this thread:

  1. 4AD as sold nowadays is BS

  2. 200mg ED ain't enough to see noticeable results in mass, not even with the real compound...perhaps long term...

  3. 99.9% of Prohormones are crap. 11-T sounds good tough.

  4. Bill Roberts is one patient son of a chemist :slight_smile:

  5. Westclock is always willing to help. Dude thanks.

  6. Test is best.

  7. I write a lot.


I know this thread is a few months old but was wondering what 11-testosterone product would you recommend?