T Nation

Proposed Cycle

I am 6’1’’ 162 lbs, and 21 years old, I’m looking for input on this proposed cycle, that I have planned to begin February 2009, I will be 22 by then and hopefully around 175 lbs. I trained off and on during high school since about age 16, but I have gotten pretty serious the past 2 ½ years or so, but I’m just not seeing any considerable gains.

I currently eat 6 meals a day, around 4000-4500 calories a day and around 250g of protein. I am currently in the planning stage, and nothing is set in stone, I just want to kind of plan ahead and get my gear ASAP (my source may not be available in a few months). So here it is:

W 1-10 Test E 500mg/Week

W 1-10 Deca 250 mg/week

W 1-4 dBol 30mg/ed

W 3-12 Adex .25mg/eod (or as needed)

W 11-14 Nolva 20MG/ed

I am considering a Test Taper but I�??m not quite sure yet what I want to do. If so I will switch to 475mg of Test E weekly and have a taper of 100mg, 75mg, 50mg, 25mg weeks 11-14.

This will be my first cycle, and this might be sort of naïve to say but I’m planning on it being my only cycle. I just want to gain some mass, and weight, and then maintain those gains. My goal weight is 187 lbs. My goal isn’t to be a huge body builder, I just want to look like an average sized man.

Right now I feel like I’m so skinny no one respects me or takes me seriously and no one understands the work I put in in the gym and in the kitchen. I mean don�??t get me wrong, I’m pretty shredded, but I need to add some mass and strength.

While on the cycle I will eat 5000+ calories a day and 300g+ of protein. I will also work out 5 days a week:

Mon-Chest, Tri’s, Shoulders
Tues- Bi’s, Back
Wed- Legs
Thurs-Chest, Tri’s, Shoulders
Fri- Bi’s, Back

Also, my source has liquid dBol and Adex, would it be OK to get some empty pill casings and fill them with the correct dosages rather than downing the liquid straight?
Also, should I remain on Creatine while on this cycle?

OK, the good the bad and the ugly:

The good: You are waiting to start. At your age and height and weight you definitely want to train and eat hard for the next 10 months. I think you being 175 by then is realistic. Your current diet looks decent and obviously suggests you have a very high metabolism as doses your weight at your height.

The bad: Training Legs once a week :(, your understanding or lack thereof of the taper protocol and your cycle as you proposed it. It shows you did some research though.

The ugly: the potential reason you’re gearing up. I’m not trying to be a moralist or your dad, but gear up for yourself. If you think merely being 187lbs and stronger will get you respect, you are slightly off tilt friend. Respect is largely tied into self image and esteem. If you have a negative one changing it is good but make sure its for yourself and not someone else.

OK suggestions:
First thing that jumps out is that Test/Deca/dbol is a, if not the, classic starter mass bulker to use the oft over used generic term. Now some will be hesistant for you start with this triple play combo. They will be concerned about your Deca inclusion. I do understand the reason behind that concern but will NOT advise you against using Deca on your very first cycle. Many people have. My first “real” cycle had Deca in it. I like your ratio of Test to deca. Over the next months read up some more on Nandrolone and when it comes time to order make an informed decision. If you decide against Deca your first time you could very justifiably move your Test dosage right to 750mg a week. Given your frame you are an ideal candidate for a larger first time dosage of aromatizable gear. Your a-dex should only be as needed and I rather doubt you will need it given how lean you are. Very prudent that you have it though, good job. Basically your idea on using 20mg of Nolva would be during weeks 15-18 not 11-14. There is a nice sticky for the test taper thread atop this forum. Read it and then read it again.

It really is good you are planning this out so far ahead. #1 on your list should be to continue busting ass in the gym and trying to pack on some natural beef before next year.

So your hoping to top all of 175 lbs before you start?

I highly doubt your consuming close to 5000 cals per day and are still that far away from 200lbs with 5-6 years of training under your belt.

I apologize if I am coming off too negative but steriods are not going to give you the results you want if you are currently only getting half assed results with what you are doing.

[quote]ajax11 wrote:
I am 6’1’’ 162 lbs, and 21 years old, I’m looking for input on this proposed cycle, that I have planned to begin February 2009, I will be 22 by then and hopefully around 175 lbs.
[/quote]

still too young
still too “light”

you are too young (training wise) and un-expert to run gear.
If you can’t grow naturally no way you can achieve the best results from AAS.

So, as said thousand times here, you don’t need AAS.
You need to learn and “follow”:

  1. proper nutrition
  2. hard training

Sorry to be harsh but at 13-14% you are not shredded.

[quote]sapasion wrote:

The good: You are waiting to start. At your age and height and weight you definitely want to train and eat hard for the next 10 months. I think you being 175 by then is realistic. Your current diet looks decent and obviously suggests you have a very high metabolism as doses your weight at your height.

[/quote]

I think 175 it is a far goal. Not a 10months target for him.
It is a lot of LBM to build in only 10month.
About 0.5kg/month of mass.
Not so little i think (not with his metabolism for sure)

[quote]ajax11 wrote:
I am 6’1’’ 162 lbs, and 21 years old, I’m looking for input on this proposed cycle, that I have planned to begin February 2009, I will be 22 by then and hopefully around 175 lbs. I trained off and on during high school since about age 16, but I have gotten pretty serious the past 2 ½ years or so, but I’m just not seeing any considerable gains.
[/quote]

You should be able to put on a decent 25lbs with this cycle and if you assume to keep 50% you should not be disappointed if you try hard enough. So you will be 175lbs when you start, plus the 12 lbs makes you a solid 187lbs.

[quote]I currently eat 6 meals a day, around 4000-4500 calories a day and around 250g of protein. I am currently in the planning stage, and nothing is set in stone, I just want to kind of plan ahead and get my gear ASAP (my source may not be available in a few months). So here it is:
[/quote]

YOU DO NOT EAT 4000KCAL A DAY. sorry, there is no way, and don’t you dare throw your metabolism at me, in my extensive experience people have no clue how many kcals they ingest without calorie counting.
You would be 185lbs if you ate 4500kcals. easy. You (i estimate on height, calorie expenditure for a body such as yours and current weight) look like you eat maybe 3000kcal - upto 3400kcals - and i am being generous!

Make this 12 weeks OR…

Make this 8 weeks

(i think i know your source and if i do it is easier for you to reduce the deca without buying a whole 20mls of test to increase the dosage by 1 gram).

[quote]I am considering a Test Taper but I�??m not quite sure yet what I want to do. If so I will switch to 475mg of Test E weekly and have a taper of 100mg, 75mg, 50mg, 25mg weeks 11-14.
[/quote]

The 100mg needs to be a weekly thing for about 6 weeks - then taper using the drops you describe. (maybe you should get more test after all!)

[quote]This will be my first cycle, and this might be sort of naïve to say but I’m planning on it being my only cycle. I just want to gain some mass, and weight, and then maintain those gains. My goal weight is 187 lbs. My goal isn’t to be a huge body builder, I just want to look like an average sized man.
[/quote]

In that case, leave the drugs alone and wait 5 years - then you will be a man (sorry at 22 you aint) and i promise you will be 10lbs heavier too at least, plus you will not have risked your libido with the deca, risked Male pattern baldness to frame that lovely face you have, gotten acne on your back and started taking anabolics to early in your life too.

[quote]Right now I feel like I’m so skinny no one respects me or takes me seriously and no one understands the work I put in in the gym and in the kitchen. I mean don�??t get me wrong, I’m pretty shredded, but I need to add some mass and strength.
[/quote]

They dont respect you because you dont have enough about you to respect. You need to grow some balls, and if they dont respect you - tell them where to go. this is you, and if they dont like it they can go fuck themselves.
If you take steroids for “respect” (or is it fear you want?) then 1. you will take more than one cycle, and 2. you will end up being a juiced up wanker, who has an attitude problem.

[quote]While on the cycle I will eat 5000+ calories a day and 300g+ of protein. I will also work out 5 days a week:
[/quote]

Eat 3-4000kcal, write all food you eat down count ALL calories and aim for about 230g protein a day. Even without test/deca etc… this is a good way for you to gain 10lbs in a year or 2.

Try a lower/upper split or Legs/Delt/Tri and Back/Chest?Bi - done 4x per week with 3 days off. (2on, 1off, 2on, 2off)

[quote]Also, my source has liquid dBol and Adex, would it be OK to get some empty pill casings and fill them with the correct dosages rather than downing the liquid straight?
Also, should I remain on Creatine while on this cycle?
[/quote]

No, the liquid will melt through the capsules in an hour or so and waste your gear. Just squirt it into your mouth and have a drink later.

Save the Creatine for Post cycle.

Joe

Also, you have a body alot of guys (and girls especially) would LOVE!!!

Grass is always greener.

Fuck your peers - they are JEALOUS!! The women love a guy who has a body like yours, just make sure to show it off in the summer!

Women like that shape more than a muscle-bound guy.

I bodybuild for me, i love it. i love muscle on me. its my life. always will be. THATS why i choose to take steroids, i gotta say, your reasons are not sound.

I trying to do you a favour. I had no fucker to talk me out of the bad decisions i made regarding many, many (oh, so many) drugs. Take heed!

Joe

Thanks for the great advice guys, Joe you are the man!

I may have unintentionally over emphasized my reasonings for possibly taking the plunge. I am mainly doing it for me, because I want to. The other issues mentioned about being respected and what not, are just other factors that have gone into weighing my decision. I’ve just always been a skinny guy my whole life.

[quote]cadav wrote:

Sorry to be harsh but at 13-14% you are not shredded.

[/quote]

If your referring to bf% I would say I’m closer to 5-6% based on a bf scale and a physician measuring me accuratley at 4.5% last summer.

It was also suggested I move the Deca from 10 weeks to 8 weeks. Would 8 weeks be long enough to see any results?

First if you can afford to increase the test do that, if not, then yes, you will see results - i have done 4 or so cycles with deca in, that lasted 8 weeks and got nice gains.

But as i was told recently by someone i respect here, the gains would be significantly better if it was run for 10+ but unless someone that knows something i dont regarding deca and test dosing pipes in to this thread, then you would be better recovery wise to reduce the deca below the test by the 2 weeks it takes to drop to low enough levels.

Good luck, and it is rare anyone does only one cycle but common to hear it. :wink:

Joe

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
Also, you have a body alot of guys (and girls especially) would LOVE!!!

Grass is always greener.

Fuck your peers - they are JEALOUS!! The women love a guy who has a body like yours, just make sure to show it off in the summer!

Women like that shape more than a muscle-bound guy.

I bodybuild for me, i love it. i love muscle on me. its my life. always will be. THATS why i choose to take steroids, i gotta say, your reasons are not sound.

I trying to do you a favour. I had no fucker to talk me out of the bad decisions i made regarding many, many (oh, so many) drugs. Take heed!

Joe[/quote]

Thanks dood this is motivation for me. I have a physique that drives girls crazy. Not to be cocky, but it’s like a slightly buff abercrombie model, minus the bitch arms…or i’m trying to anyway. lol Anyways people always tell me, why do you want to get bigger, etc, etc, do you really want to try and look like those guys in the magazines. For a while I was like “ya they are right i don’t want to do that” But in reality I do. I want to be a pro bodybuilder someday.

Its something engrained deep within to build an impressive physique like those guys have, regardless of what girls and my friends may think. I like pussy but when it all comes down to it I want some girl to like me for who I am and the things/passions I have in life. So I want to get BIG! lol sorry for the rant on how I want to grow but hey, you motivated me. lol

Gerdy
p.s. still waiting another yr or two before participation on aas…personally I can’t wait. :slight_smile:

I feel the same. it is a deeply personal drive i have to try and build the most muscle i can, it simply makes me feel fucking good.

I also agree with arnold.

And yes i am sure you cant wait!

Joe

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
First if you can afford to increase the test do that, if not, then yes, you will see results - i have done 4 or so cycles with deca in, that lasted 8 weeks and got nice gains.

[/quote]

I think I will keep the Test dosage at 10 weeks and decrease the Deca to 8 weeks. I want to keep this cycle short to avoid any sides. But I am thinking of upping the Deca dosage to 300mg a week rather then 250. Is this a good idea?

I think I am going to skip the taper and just wait 2 weeks before starting PCT weeks 13-16.

You do realize that the test taper has been proven to be the most effective form of PCT. As someone who has used it and has had many trainees use it I can attest the fact you will keep most of, if not all your gains. Usually at least 90%. Largely all you lose is the water weight.

Also, I agree with the other posters that you are too young.

However, if you’re going to do it, then at least do it right.

World

I agree with World. The taper is excellent, especially for a first cycle when you are liable to make better gains than on any subsequent cycle.

Is that you in your avatar?

If it is, he looks exactly like “Brad Pitt in Fight Club” with a Zoolander facial expression.

And if it is, you don’t need AAS to get to 187-190. That should be a 3 year goal, max, at 10 lbs a year, being conservative since you’re pretty new to training hard and still very light for your height (I’m 6’1" as well). You could probably do it in 2.

I appreciate you planning to wait another year, that shows patience and respect. And you did research ahead of time as well. Good things for sure. But in all honesty you don’t need the AAS for your goals.

btw, no I’m not trying to discourage you on the steroids, I’m a n00b at this too. Just letting you know that it’s easily doable if you train and eat hard. I’m fairly certain you are not taking in the amount of calories you say you are. This is because I came from your exact build when I started, except I was less lean and skinnier. I had and do have a fast metabolism, and I can STILL gain weight on 4500 calories/day

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
If it is, he looks exactly like “Brad Pitt in Fight Club” with a Zoolander facial expression.

[/quote]

Whenever I see avatars like that, I always hope it is the OP, because if it is not, it’s a little too homoerotic for my taste.

lmao cortes

No that’s not me in the avatar, it’s just a picture that motivates me, and is what I would like to look like some day.

In regards to the Test Taper, it was recomended that I use 100mg for 6 weeks then 75, 50, 25. I’m no expert but, that seems like an awful long time to be on test. Could I maybe do 100, 100, 75, 50?

THATS NOT YOU? right then…

Also… i gonna be a bit of a cunt here… but what makes you think it is designed like that? Just to piss you off? Do you think any thought has gone into designing this taper at all?

If you don’t think the taper suits you, use another method.

Joe

8 weeks of Deca is too short, run it for 10 and expand your test E for 12 weeks or, run the deca for 12 weeks and expand the Test E to 14 weeks. Though I still don’t think you would be wise using all 3 compounds your first go. But…

I seriously doubt you’re taking in 4,000 calories a day. 162lbs at@6’1?? Come on, you don’t need steroids you need more serious training and eating.