Propionate Trial - Oops, Screwed Up a Bit

My man @systemlord is gonna say “told you so” lol

Been really really comfortable on about 150mg/week of T cyp. I wanted to try T prop as a lot of guys seem to like it, and so that I can make adjustments a little more quickly and get fine tuned.

Well, Defy suggested I start off at the exact same dose (22mg/day) immediately. Knowing that on 200mg/week of T cyp I turned into an angry asshole, I was wary.

Day 1 - pinned 10mg T prop, felt good, nothing crazy. Really tired in the evening
Day 2 - woke up feeling insanely exhausted. Thought maybe I should just listen to the doctor and start at a higher dose. Still it’s prop, so I reduced it from 22mg to 20mg.

Went to the gym, had a good workout. I work nights on weekends (club lighting setups), so went to work and started setting up. Noticed I was feeling a little aggressive, but was under a lot of pressure last night. Within hours, it turned to flat out anger, which then transformed into full on rage.

Slept just under 4 hours last night, woke up nearly as angry. Finally calming down a bit now, after multiple blowout arguments with the girlfriend. Watching some tutorials on Youtube and went to get a cup of kratom to help take the edge off.

Starting to get a little nervous about what I should do next. It’s really easy to turn back now, get the T cyp back out, call Defy on Monday and see if they can swap it as I barely used any. I freaked out like this on 200mg too, and instead of stopping TRT, I cooled down, lowered my dose, and felt the best I’ve felt yet.

So I kind of want to wait until I feel normal again in a day or so, then start again at like 12mg/day and work up from there. I’d still be able to reap some of the potential benefits of prop then, and avoid the expense of exchanging the bottle.

As a side note, Empower’s T prop does not sting in the least!

Bonus question: how the hell do guys on cycle run a TT of like 5000 and not literally explode with anger?

I wish there was a sticky that said “when you change shit, regardless of what you change, you’ll likely feel worse for some period of time”. Every time someone says “I feel good but I’m going to completely change things” they will know to expect a period of time that is going to suck.

Who are these people? It’s used with success for cycles but I don’t know anyone using it for TRT that stayed using it.


Google ester weights of prop versus cyp. You’ll learn something new. Also due to its faster peaking action none of this surprises me knowing you get like that on 200mg cyp.


How’d it work for you on cycle?

Yea I’m wondering if the peaks are a bad idea for me now.

Defy thinks the aggression is coming from E2, but I don’t think it aromatizes within hours, does it? And on 200mg/week of T cyp, I did try anastrozole a couple of times, and it definitely didn’t make a difference.

I think I just do better on a lower dose.

When Defy prescribe me an AI when I had both high testosterone and high estrogen, the aggression and mood problems vanished. I then traded high estrogen for low estrogen. When I gave up on the AAI this is when I lowered my dosage and started feeling good.

I can say I aromatise within hours, because I already demonstrated the AI gets rid of the high estrogen symptoms hours after my injection.

Oh and by the way, I told you so. Lol.

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Don’t know where your aggression comes from my only point was that prop is stronger than cyp so whatever mechanism is causing your aggression on 200mg cyp would do so at a lower dose of prop.

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Yea, you win ha.

The ONLY thing wrong before I tried this experiment was erectile function and libido got a little worse. They were great about a week after going from 200mg>150mg, then it leveled out.

Then again, I haven’t been sleeping so well, so that could play into it too.

Do you really think aggression is determined by what level your estrogen is? When you say high estrogen do you mean it’s high in relation to your Testosterone?

High T - high E = good
Low T - high E = bad
High T - low E = bad


I really don’t believe it is, I think it’s just higher T than I can deal with. Defy mentioned it then suggested that cyp/deca blend to lower E2 a little.

I’m going to try a Tren/test blend because I’m having an issue where I slap my head when I read some posts. Lol


I wouldn’t mind adding Anavar to my TRT though. Ask them what issues I need to get that. Now that would be awesome

I loled

Since telling my bodybuilder friend about the cyp/deca, he just keeps texting me “TREN” ha

It’s tempting to try. Wonder how much that 60mg a week of deca would do…

I’d worry about the neurological effects of deca. I know it’s a tiny dosage but it has to have some impact. Deca takes 18 months or so to totally leave the system. Plus the possible Deca Dick thing ain’t exactly a selling point. If you were using it to cycle as a means to gain weight then that’s one thing but a tiny bit forever seems like not worth the risk. If you don’t plan on being on it forever then what’s the point of trying it for TRT anyway. I have no experience with Deca at all so keep that in mind.

18 months? Holy shit. If that’s true, that’s insane.

If it weren’t for that, I figure I could deal with deca dick for a few months and see how it goes otherwise.

I’m curious as to why they picked deca to blend it with too. And surprised they’re prescribing a “real” AAS. With the dodgy press about TRT as it is, throwing that in definitely isn’t improving the image.

Not worth the risk of deca dick IMO

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I used to recommend Defy to my friends but lately they have been pushing Nandrolone with has no place in TRT. Unless you have HIV or some other wasting disease it would be irresponsible and borderline illegal to prescribe.


That seems like a bit much for the TRT world

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I feel the same way. When they recommended it to me I thought the PA was saying something else, until I asked him to spell it and pulled up fucking deca.

On paper, it leading to lower E2 is a nice concept, but I feel it’s kind of making customers the guinea pig.

Still out of any dr I’ve talked to about hormones, Dr Saya has been above and beyond. I’ve really picked his brains on some other things related to my pituitary tumor, and he’s exceptionally knowledgable. His demeanor is vastly different than that of the PAs there that I’ve talked to as well - he hasn’t once pushed anything on me, even taking time to help me with low calcium levels which would be of no profitable gain to them.

This has been my first experience with a no-insurance-accepted “lifestyle” clinic, and despite them obviously trying to make a profit, there have definitely been many upsides. I’m beyond sick of arguing with typical sick care doctors who constantly mess things up or just don’t care. Like my endo who said guys don’t need estrogen, or my PCP who thinks my prolactin of 32 is “extremely” high (for those who don’t know, pituitary tumors can send it into the 10’s of thousands easily).

I agree that he is exceptional. I’ve ever conversed with him personally as a caveat to that statement.

Also my experience until I found a good endo at the Moffit Cancer Center. They are few and far between though.

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