T Nation

Propionate and Syringes?


Starting first injectable cycle soon, I already had a thread, got most of it sorted.
I have propionate to use instead now though instead of cyp, just wanted to check a few more things.

1.Is 3cc 23g 1.5" correct for the syringe?

2.Also how often am I supposed to cycle injection sites? It's my first cycle and I have propionate, and injecting hcg twice a week.. so I'm going to be injecting 5-6 times a week.... Can i just alternate left/right glute, I'm a little scared to use any other site!

1-12 500mg Test propionate
1-14 20mg nolva (I got itchy nipples on low dose dianabol before)
4-14 250iu HCG 2x/week
10-14 40mg winny ed
15-18 PCT 40/40/20/20 (nolva)

  1. I switched to propionate because I couldn't get an AI. Will I be okay without one now?
  2. I was originally planning to frontload or kickstart with an oral, is there any point in doing this with prop, I hear its faster acting!
  3. If day 1 is my first day weightraining, should I inject first on day 0?
  4. Becasue I have propionate can I now start the pct earlier? cos the test will leave my system quicker, week 14 now?

Thankyou, I think I'll FINALLY be sorted after this. i have to order needles asp though.

  1. for what location? Glutes? Sure
  2. I dont know the general rule for this. Regardless, you definitely need more injection sites.
  3. No
  4. Sure
  5. Your planning your training based on your injection date? WTF!?! Do you even lift? Give your stats
  6. Look it up, you only need a few days for it to be out of your system

Why are you using nolva on cycle instead of an AI. You have much, much more to sort out buddy.

  1. Yes for glutes, 1" probably better for your delts depending on how large you are.
  2. Do glutes and delts and you should be okay. Try to work in quads if you can, but I usually have pretty poor luck with them.
  3. Testosterone is testosterone. Aromatization will occur no matter what ester length. So no, you should have an AI or at the very least nolva in case something happens. But like you said, you had issues before so I'd say you better get an AI.
  4. Of course you can, but you're also correct, you'll start "feeling" the prop very quickly
  5. Have you lifted before? I don't really get this question..... just continue with your training schedule. Some will disagree, but personally, I don't like training a bodypart directly after injecting into it - makes it very sore for me.
  6. Start PCT 4 days after last prop injection, I'd say.

  1. I'd get a lower gauge to draw the oil in with. I personally like 3cc/22gx1" to draw with as it's thick enough to draw with a bit of ease and thin enough not to damage the rubber too much with many draws. After drawing the oil in swop to a 23g or 25g needle to shoot with. You're going to be poking a lot, might as well make it more enjoyable with a fresh/sharp smaller gauge new needle.

  2. You ideally should shoot every day or every other day and rotate between 2 or more sites bi-laterally - so left glute, right glute, left delt, right delt, repeat for example. Quads are a good and easy spot but my favorite is delts and recently chest. I think you'll be fine and enjoy glutes/delts. 70mg a day (.7cc) would net you 490mg/week and a small inject and less pip (post-injection-pain) or you could do 140mg evry other day (1.4cc) but even though it's less poking I feel you'll enjoy every day better.

A few things to consider
~If you're running 20mg of Nolvadex while on cycle there's no point in raising it for PCT as 20mg will stimulate test production as well as 40mg, 40mg is a loading dose and for extra estrogen control.
~I notice you are looking at PCT as being 2 weeks later? I assume that's why you then increase your Nolva dose. The half life of Prop will make PCT start much earlier.
~Seeing the Winny at the end makes me wonder or think two things: You had a long-estered cycle planed and are simply changing the test but not taking it's ester into consideration. Or maybe you are trying to peak for something? With the Winny at the end I wouldn't start with a oral too. I find orals work best (regardless of liver damage, lipids, etc) at 4-6 weeks; so 4 on, 4 off, 4 on for example is decent, but I'd just run it once for 4-6 weeks whenever suits best for you.
~Run the Hcg for as long as you run the Prop.

  1. You might be fine without a AI, especially since you're running Nolva, but you might need one - have one on hand and ideally I would get Aromasin and plan on using it at a low dose.

  2. No point, per se, in front-loading with a oral

  3. Whatever works best for you. I guess I would start injects on a Sunday as I train on Monday.

  4. Kinda answered earlier. If you run the Nolva during your cycle, just keep running it 4 or so weeks after. If you switch things around with a AI then start your Nolva the next week which would really be a day or two after your last short - I know some might say wait 3 days, or wait 3 days and 12 1/2 hours or whatever, but it just doesn't matter too much and it'll give it time to build up anyway. But again, since you are planning on running it during your cycle just run it past your cycle. If you switch to a AI or not use the Nolva during then we can talk about it.


can you explain?

i just started my first cycle and ive been injecting 2x per week, left quad on sunday and right on wednesday, then repeat next week...

anythibng wrong with that?

(sorry for the hijack!)


Oh no not at all.... if you can do them, great! I just seem to hit a damn nerve every single time I pin quads, no matter which injection area I try to go for. I'll also usually end up aspirating blood as well, so I just steer clear of them now.


Gentlemen, would a 3cc 21g 1.5" suffice? I cannot find any other option at the time..
It's either that or a 23g with a differnt capacity syringe. I heard the 3 cc' were easier to push in. thanks.

By day 0 I meant... I workout day 1,3,5 (6,7=longer rest) So I was thinking, since the prop was fast acting, starting the first injecion on my last rest day (7) would be slightly more advantageous to doing it on day 1. Seems logical to me. Critque me If I seem incorrect, ta.


Its just a needle. 21g is no different than a 22g-as in you wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

Draw with a 3cc 20-22g, and shoot glutes with a 23g 1.5" and all other sites with a 25g 1".

Days for injects dont matter as long as you keep to the half life. The others here have answered very well to all your questions.

Good luck on your first run. And btw-no need to rush buying the pins. Theres always more reading to do so just get to the cycle when you get to it-its not like you have to prep for a bb comp.


Hey thanks for all the help! I was considering winny at the end of the cycle because I heard from many places that winny may be good at solidifying gains. Maybe it's a myth. Well I'll try it one day, probably not this cycle though, as it's my first injectable.

A few more questions before I start the cycle next week :slight_smile: if you don't mind gents. Mostly about needles.
I'll have enough knowledge after this I believe.

  1. The drawer containingg my gear, I would like to clean it, but I am a habitually filthy bastard and also am not sure if certain cleaning products could somehow contaminate the area? what do use?
    2.Is an alcohol pad for injecting really good enough? I hear it is merrely effective the majority of the time, and not a fully fledged disinfectant? What alternative should I use or am I being overly cautious?
    3.Should I always put a plaster on after injecting.
    4.How fast should I inject, and how fst should i pull out, i was told both should be done slowly and indeed to leave the needle in for a few minutes afterwards to rpevent gear coming back out..
    5.Do I basically just pinch my belly fat to do my hcg shot?
    6.If I hit a vein or fat when I aspirate and blood/fat comes out. Is the gear still good to go? After withdrawing of course.
    7.Lieing down on a bed to pin my glutes = win?
  2. The diagram I'm following for glute shots.. the section shaded, what the hell this is goin into the lower back.
    9.If I want to do 420mg of prop a week and I inject every day I do 120mg every shot correct? becasue 120 x3.5
    Stupid question perhaps, but I worry for my reasoning. Thanks.


1-2) wouldn't worry about that too much
3) a plaster? you mean a band-aid? Doesn't mattter.
4) Slowly, yes... and a few minutes after? NO... a few seconds is fine.
5) pretty much. as long as its going in the fat you are good on a sub-Q shot
6) yes
7) Up to you I guess...
8) Can't help you on that, I don't see the diagram.
9) There are 7 days in a week, not 3.5 so if you are doing shots every day, then do 60mg ED.
Assuming you meant every other day, then yes, that would average to 420 a week..I would do 60mg ED though to reduce fluctuations.


Thanks for the help. I'm good to go. Well actually I have found another source that seems far, far superior, and I will probably change my cycle, but that's for another thread.

regarding my last point, no.8 This is the site that has the surely far too high shaded area for the glute shot. Could have sworn I pasted it. Maybe a mod hates the site, If so tell me it's crap please, am only asking for injection advice. Thankyou.


If you divide the glute into 4 parts, the injection goes in the middle of the upper, outer quadrant.

Ventrogluteal is a superior site to all the ones mentioned in this thread


no, test is test despite the ester, if you needed an AI for any type of test you will also need some for Prop