T Nation

Proper Timing & Dosage of My Supps

I was wondering if the times and dosages I am starting to take is reasonable for strength gain. Im taking this BCAA

gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=
2643560&cp=&sr=1&kw=bcaa&origkw=bcaa&parentPage=search

Along with whey protien and fish oil.

Breakfast then 6g of fish oil. Pre workout protien shake(40g) stacked with BCAA’s(40g). Post workout- 40g of BCAA 2 hours later lunch. 4 hours after lunch 40g protien shake. Dinner then bed. Non workout days 20g of protien and BCAA each. And with normal 6g of fish oil.

This is based off of diffrent threads and articles I have read. So if for any reason this sounds completley wrong or if you have any changes, please do so.

i don’t see any reason to take such a high dose of BCAAs at once, especially when taken along with 40g protein.

my opinion: just use the BCAAs pre/during/post workout. maybe 10g each. throughout the rest of the day you will be getting plenty of amino acids from the foods you should be eating.

also, why eat differently on your off days? you still need lots of protein/calories for recovery and muscle repair.

I would not say completely wrong, your reasoning is good and you follow the important parts, though it seems you are over-focusing on the protein. Below you will see, I have an example of changing up the procedure you use, but trying to simplify and maximize benefit.

With the BCAA dose you are using, it changes the requirements for protein before the workout. You could go exercise 1-2 hours after a meal with quality animal protein, take BCAA during and whey (or PeptoPro or Surge) after and then eat your next meal.

If you take 80g of BCAA on workout days, I would take half during the workout and the other half split into 5, 8g doses either an hour or so before each meal or right up to during the meal. On non-workout days, just remove the during and post-workout nutrition.

Preworkout:
meal: 1-2 hours prior, based on personal preference and schedule
stimulant: 20-30min prior - coffee, Spike, Power Drive, etc. (pick one, none, or some, but not all)

Workout Nutrition:
40g BCAA, possibly beta alanine, citrulline malate

Post-Workout:
60g whey, beta alanine, creatine
meal: 30-60min after workout finished.

For protein shake ‘meals’, use a blend of proteins like Metabolic Drive.

[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
I would not say completely wrong, your reasoning is good and you follow the important parts, though it seems you are over-focusing on the protein. Below you will see, I have an example of changing up the procedure you use, but trying to simplify and maximize benefit.

With the BCAA dose you are using, it changes the requirements for protein before the workout. You could go exercise 1-2 hours after a meal with quality animal protein, take BCAA during and whey (or PeptoPro or Surge) after and then eat your next meal.

If you take 80g of BCAA on workout days, I would take half during the workout and the other half split into 5, 8g doses either an hour or so before each meal or right up to during the meal. On non-workout days, just remove the during and post-workout nutrition.

Preworkout:
meal: 1-2 hours prior, based on personal preference and schedule
stimulant: 20-30min prior - coffee, Spike, Power Drive, etc. (pick one, none, or some, but not all)

Workout Nutrition:
40g BCAA, possibly beta alanine, citrulline malate

Post-Workout:
60g whey, beta alanine, creatine
meal: 30-60min after workout finished.

For protein shake ‘meals’, use a blend of proteins like Metabolic Drive.[/quote]

Ok, the only thing is im not using creatine or anything else. Just whey, BCAA and protien.

[quote]ktennies wrote:
i don’t see any reason to take such a high dose of BCAAs at once, especially when taken along with 40g protein.

my opinion: just use the BCAAs pre/during/post workout. maybe 10g each. throughout the rest of the day you will be getting plenty of amino acids from the foods you should be eating.

also, why eat differently on your off days? you still need lots of protein/calories for recovery and muscle repair.[/quote]

Im still going to eat good, just not as much supp.

[quote]TheBig3 wrote:
Ok, the only thing is im not using creatine or anything else. Just whey, BCAA and protien.[/quote]

That is fine, I just wanted to show where it could fit in.

[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
TheBig3 wrote:
Ok, the only thing is im not using creatine or anything else. Just whey, BCAA and protien.

That is fine, I just wanted to show where it could fit in.[/quote]

Oh, ok, you ever hear of JP8, i hear the stuff works wonders.

[quote]TheBig3 wrote:
Oh, ok, you ever hear of JP8, i hear the stuff works wonders.[/quote]

It doesn’t look any different than most other NO2 supplements.

Just search NO2 for opinions of these products around here.

I just looked at the ingredient list. It looks like a stimulant-like mix with some pump compounds, creatine and beta alanine, and some herbs mixed in.

In general, this is a little too kitchen sink-ish for my liking. It is too hard to tell which of the ingredients is actually doing it for you. However, if you use it and like it, then that is basically your preworkout stimulant/pump drink.

I think if you were to use citrulline malate, beta alanine, and creatine, it would give you much of the same benefit performance wise. The stimulant part seems like a Power Drive-like mix with some stronger stims like caffeine among others added. A cap of REZ-V is likely more powerful than the antioxidant compounds in this added up.

Really the problem with stuff like this is that there is no way to get enough of the good stuff into it. My preference for products like this is Scivation VasoCharge. I don’t care much for the NO compounds other than citrulline malate which is the one that seems to work best and have a significant performance effect. Considering it costs around the same per serving, has the same serving size and doesn’t have 7.5g of sugar in 18-19g, I think it is a better deal.

If I were to try to come up with a Biotest stack, it would be Power Drive, Caffeine-free Spike, and a Spike Shotgun, Double Shot, or a grande-size coffee (2 cups).

So my verdict is not so much that I think JP8 sucks (it is a fine jet fuel that fuels Canada’a fighter jets), but rather that there is a better product that meets those needs with less filler (Vasocharge) for a similar price ($1.30/serving vs. $1.11 for JP8) or a much better way of going about the same thing if you have cash to spend (around $4.50 for the Biotest stack - though you could take off the $1.20 that 2 Caffeine-Free Spike costs since there is no equivalent to that in either of the cheap options).

[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
I just looked at the ingredient list. It looks like a stimulant-like mix with some pump compounds, creatine and beta alanine, and some herbs mixed in.

In general, this is a little too kitchen sink-ish for my liking. It is too hard to tell which of the ingredients is actually doing it for you. However, if you use it and like it, then that is basically your preworkout stimulant/pump drink.

I think if you were to use citrulline malate, beta alanine, and creatine, it would give you much of the same benefit performance wise. The stimulant part seems like a Power Drive-like mix with some stronger stims like caffeine among others added. A cap of REZ-V is likely more powerful than the antioxidant compounds in this added up.

Really the problem with stuff like this is that there is no way to get enough of the good stuff into it. My preference for products like this is Scivation VasoCharge. I don’t care much for the NO compounds other than citrulline malate which is the one that seems to work best and have a significant performance effect. Considering it costs around the same per serving, has the same serving size and doesn’t have 7.5g of sugar in 18-19g, I think it is a better deal.

If I were to try to come up with a Biotest stack, it would be Power Drive, Caffeine-free Spike, and a Spike Shotgun, Double Shot, or a grande-size coffee (2 cups).

So my verdict is not so much that I think JP8 sucks (it is a fine jet fuel that fuels Canada’a fighter jets), but rather that there is a better product that meets those needs with less filler (Vasocharge) for a similar price ($1.30/serving vs. $1.11 for JP8) or a much better way of going about the same thing if you have cash to spend (around $4.50 for the Biotest stack - though you could take off the $1.20 that 2 Caffeine-Free Spike costs since there is no equivalent to that in either of the cheap options).[/quote]

Ill have to try those and compare, ill get back to you on that. And one more thing, my little brother is 15, I train him and he wants to take the same supp. im taking, I cant think of a reason to not let him take them, should I keep him away, or let himv take the supplements?

[quote]TheBig3 wrote:
Ill have to try those and compare, ill get back to you on that. And one more thing, my little brother is 15, I train him and he wants to take the same supp. im taking, I cant think of a reason to not let him take them, should I keep him away, or let himv take the supplements?[/quote]

The approach I take is no supplements until a person can follow the following for at least 2 weeks:

  • 5 animal protein meals, preferably at least 3 meat feedings and some real plain yogurt, the rest can be high quality protein shakes like Metabolic Drive

  • 5 servings of veggies, serving size equal to meat weight of average meal, so 200g beef, 200g veggies, preferrably half leafy greens or cruciferous

  • balance fat for the day

  • mostly (80%+) clean carbs from fruit, quinoa, wild rice, steel cut oats, yams

I am assuming he has a clean bill of health and no medical conditions.

I would watch it with the stimulant type supplements. Protein, BCAA, creatine, beta alanine, fish oil, and even citrulline malate may be dosed based on body weight. If he drinks coffee, then he should use that preworkout, but I would prefer to see youth take tea instead and focus on the clean living, save the drugs like caffeine till adulthood.

Just make sure he understands that while he may ‘feel’ a stimulant the most, the others will quietly have more effects in the long run. Also, this may be an excellent opportunity to point out to him that most supplements are hype and diet is by far the most important. The best way to do this is by setting an example food-wise. The more he sees you plan, purchase, prepare, and eat good food, the more he will follow, same for the gym.

[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
TheBig3 wrote:
Ill have to try those and compare, ill get back to you on that. And one more thing, my little brother is 15, I train him and he wants to take the same supp. im taking, I cant think of a reason to not let him take them, should I keep him away, or let himv take the supplements?

The approach I take is no supplements until a person can follow the following for at least 2 weeks:

  • 5 animal protein meals, preferably at least 3 meat feedings and some real plain yogurt, the rest can be high quality protein shakes like Metabolic Drive

  • 5 servings of veggies, serving size equal to meat weight of average meal, so 200g beef, 200g veggies, preferrably half leafy greens or cruciferous

  • balance fat for the day

  • mostly (80%+) clean carbs from fruit, quinoa, wild rice, steel cut oats, yams

I am assuming he has a clean bill of health and no medical conditions.

I would watch it with the stimulant type supplements. Protein, BCAA, creatine, beta alanine, fish oil, and even citrulline malate may be dosed based on body weight.

If he drinks coffee, then he should use that preworkout, but I would prefer to see youth take tea instead and focus on the clean living, save the drugs like caffeine till adulthood.

Just make sure he understands that while he may ‘feel’ a stimulant the most, the others will quietly have more effects in the long run. Also, this may be an excellent opportunity to point out to him that most supplements are hype and diet is by far the most important.

The best way to do this is by setting an example food-wise. The more he sees you plan, purchase, prepare, and eat good food, the more he will follow, same for the gym.[/quote]

Yea, the first thing I tought him was to eat right.