T Nation

Proper Debate - Head to Head Face-off


I don't care much for the issue that they were arguing about or any symbolic meaning it carries. However, I like watching Jon Stewart's show and I like that he points out the hypocrisy in other news programs (never mind there may be hypocrisy in his, who doesn't have it). I wanted to hear from those on this website, what they thought about this face-off, and what words of critique could be given. I think debate (in a civil, respectful manner; some call it dialog) has a very useful tool, but they way I see it done most is with huge egos, condescension and insults, which isn't very conducive to reaching any conclusion at all (except, to-agree-to-disagree). I think a lot on here could definitely use a lesson in proper debate, myself included.


and part 2


Bill O'Reilly owns this moron. Jon Stewart is a bad comedian not a serious commentator.


How? What does he say? Or is it how he says it that drives the point home so hard?


I actually think Stewart pwns O'Reilly with the Bono, Bob Dylan points.


Jesus , more of the same old shit , Obama is paling around with a Black man that pals around with a cop killer


The only people that suck a bigger dick than O'reily is Beck and limpdick and Reagan :slight_smile:


"Now who is pettifogging? Now I can't even see you. Here you pettifog. No. That is exactly the same. Bob Dylan wrote a song about a convicted killer named Hurricane Carter. He has been to the White House. Why are you drawing the line at Common? There is a selective outrage machine here at Fox that pettifogs only when it suits the narrative that suits them. This guy is in the crosshairs in a way that he shouldn't be, whether you agree with him or not. You may think he is ignorant in believing that Assata Shakur is innocent. You may think he is ignorant in believing that mummy is. But then guess what? Bono can't go to the White House. Springsteen can't go to the White House. Bob Dylan can't go to the White House. You have got a lot of people that aren't allowed to sit in the White House because they have written songs about people convicted of murder."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/transcript/bill-oreilly-and-jon-stewart-debate-common-controversy?page=3#ixzz1MfovWJQr

Pretty much sums it up


It's the point itself and Stewart's pathetic attempts to obfuscate the issue.


Oh please stewart makes a clear and concise point that makes what O'reilly is bitching about completely bullshit.

At the end of the day your just stubborn and unwilling to hear what other people have to say because ya know it might mean your wrong GASP.


There was an issue?


Sounds good to me.


Did Bono, Dylan or Springstein sing about 'burn(ing)' the President of the United States?


I wonder how many Obama supporters would be sympathetic to George Bush if he brought a rapper into the white house who spoke badly of homosexuals, or described how much fun it would be to poison the air? It's funny how the liberals who promote pc behavior and have virtually outlawed certain words think that it's okay to talk about killing police officers.

For that matter if GW went to a church where the minister preached hate against black people we certainly know how would the media have reacted, and rightly so. Yet where was the media outrage regarding Obama's associations? Forget the outrage they didn't even report on it until it was brought up by FOX repeatedly. And then it was second page news.

Anyone who doesn't yet realize that a double standard exists is either stupid, or blinded by partisanship.

As for Jon Stewart he is and has been a schill for the democratic party for many years.


The issue is just the selective outrage, which is nothing new. You either have to make hyperbolic news about all questionable white house visitors or none of them.


This one stands out pretty clearly doesn't it? And there should be outrage. But my point is why now? Obama has been associated with dastardly people for an entire life time. Having a rapper who talks about killing policemen invited to the White House is pretty much par for the course. And once again true to form the media doesn't give a shit.

Obama lives in a shell protected by his media pals. And all of the funny knit wits like Jon Stewart who keep the 20 something's in line. But there are something like a half million law enforcement officers and at least an additional one million family members and friends who will think twice before pulling the Obama lever.

So, it's all good in the end.


It's really not different though. Judge the guy on his body of work not on what you think he raps/writes about. Look at the lyrics of the song everyone is using to condemn him as "condoning cop killing":
"Assata had been convicted of a murder she couldna done/Medical evidence shown she couldna shot the gun" http://www.metrolyrics.com/a-song-for-assata-lyrics-common.html

Nowhere in the song is he laudatory of killing cops. Don't just toe the party line. If people don't vote for Obama because of this issue then I guess it's a validation of misinformation. You praise Beck for always asking people to look at the information for themselves and seek of facts on the matter: it's too bad that Fox viewers don't always do that. I'd also encourage you to actually watch his performance at the white house: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bijxZohnQvI&feature=player_embedded#at=87

â??Politics is politics and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I respect that. The one thing that shouldnâ??t be questioned is my support for the police officers and troops that protect us every day."


Hearing that thing speak literally makes me fucking cringe. How can any man argue EVERY POINT so fucking indirectly, dishonestly, and passive aggressively?!? HOW DOES THIS FUCK HAVE AN AUDIENCE?


Stewart's argument decimates O'Rielly's. If you can't see the hypocrisy underlying Fox's condemnation of this whole non-issue, then you are either mentally handicapped or blinded by terminal partisan hackery.

That said, I have always liked how these two can disagree on basically everything and still show each other a modicum of respect and a sort of weird, sharp-edged camaraderie.


Quoted for truth. The logic here is valid and sound. Stewart is right. End of story.


Lets be honest whenever O'Reilly has Stewart on He turns down his crazy, because he probably is afraid he would be utterly destroyed by Stewart. I mean he really dials it down look at his interviews with a bunch of other political people, he just interrupts/yells/flat out ignores what they have to say.