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Prop or Enan

Prop or Enanthate

Im curious which is a better compound for an 8 week cycle. Or 10 weeks? I was just thinking about it.

What do you guys think?

For short cycles - use short esters.

duh, yeah. But with a long cycle would a long ester be better?

Just depends on how many holes you want to poke in yourself.

Longer esters are suited better for longer cycles. But test is test - it’s your choice as to which ester you want to use.

[quote]kickbxer wrote:
duh, yeah. But with a long cycle would a long ester be better?[/quote]

Dude - you asked about an 8-10 week cycle.

That is a pretty short cycle.

Maybe you should refrain from the smart ass remarks until you know what the hell you are talking about.

[quote]kickbxer wrote:
duh, yeah. But with a long cycle would a long ester be better?[/quote]

Duh!? Your original question said nothing about Long cycles! Rainjacks anwswer was fine, he deserves an apology! My Personal limited experience. Enanthate sucks. Felt very bloated. Mixures (Sust, supertest,andropen etc…) I liked better as there is less bloat. Prop rules no matter short or long. I am experimenting with different combos of Supertest and Prop. No matter what I do 5 injections per week. 10 injection spots = each spot once every 2 weeks. Have had no problems.

Even when using long acting esters I prefer to use prop as well. Seems to decrease the bloat effect significantly.
See Ya

i didnt mean to offend you rainjack it was more talking to myself, so i apologize.

I was thinking this as a theoretical question (and poking oneself a bunch aside) wouldnt a short fast acting ester in a long cycle over 12 weeks be more effective than a long ester simply because it builds up so much faster? Thanks rainjack my limited exposure made me think 10 weeks was long.

If you haven’t done prop before, make sure your body tolerates it. I learned the hard way…I bought a shit load of test prop and was ready to rock and roll…then I took the first shot…the shot itself didn’t hurt…but for about 4 days post injection I could barely sit on my ass. Turns out…my body doesn’t tolerate prop.

I don’t know if it’s true, but I’ve read that chemically prop is similar to bee venom (although I’m not allergic to bees). Subsequently I ran two cycles with test enanthate and tren enanthate and loved it. For me…I had less sides with enanathate. I ran tren acetate prior to the enanthate cycle and I had more tren sides.

Good luck…GO Enanthate and inject E3D.

why not use sustanon

[quote]kickbxer wrote:
i didnt mean to offend you rainjack it was more talking to myself, so i apologize.

I was thinking this as a theoretical question (and poking oneself a bunch aside) wouldnt a short fast acting ester in a long cycle over 12 weeks be more effective than a long ester simply because it builds up so much faster? Thanks rainjack my limited exposure made me think 10 weeks was long.[/quote]

Yes. In theory you would be correct. I have been on test prop for almost six straight months. But - you cannot take injection frequency out of the picture simply because after 180 daily injections - shit starts getting sore. Real sore.

I copied this from another web site, maybe reading about the compounds will help you.

Testosterone Propionate:
Active Life: 2-3 days
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: Men 50-200 mg/day
Acne: Yes
Water Retention: Yes, high
High Blood Pressure: Yes
Liver Toxic: Low
Aromatization:Yes, high
DHT Conversion: Yes, high
Decrease HPTA function: Yes, severe

Testosterone propionate is a commonly manufactured, oil-based injectable testosterone compound. The propionate ester will slow the rate in which the steroid is released from the injection site, but only for a few days. Testosterone propionate is therefore much faster acting than other testosterone esters such as cypionate or enanthate, and requires a much more frequent dosing schedule, in order to maintain stable blood levels. While cypionate and enanthate are injected on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, propionate is usually injected every second. The propionate ester can be very irritating to the site of injection. In fact, many sensitive individuals choose to stay away from this steroid completely, their body reacting with a pronounced soreness and low-grade fever that may last for a few days.

Those who do not mind frequent injections will find propionate to be quite an effective steroid. As with all testosterones, it is a powerful mass drug, capable of producing rapid gains in size and strength. At the same time the buildup of estrogen and DHT (dihydrotestosterone) will be pronounced, so typical testosterone side effects are to be expected. Many consider propionate to be the mildest testosterone ester, and the preferred form for the dieting/cutting phases of training. Some will go so far as to say that propionate will harden the physique, while giving the user less water and fat retention than one typically expects to see with a testosterone. Realistically however, this is nonsense. The ester is removed before testosterone is active in the body, and likewise the ester cannot alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way, only slow its release. We can say that propionate might be the favored testosterone among female bodybuilders (for those who insist on testosterone use), as blood levels are easier to control with it compared to other esters. Should virilization symptoms develop, one would not wish to wait the weeks needed for testosterone concentrations to fall after a shot of enanthate for example.

During a typical cycle one will see action that is consistent with a testosterone. Users sensitive to gynecomastia and water retention may therefore need to add an anti-estrogen like Arimidex, Femara or Aromasin. Those particularly troubled by gynecomastia may find that a combination of Nolvadex and Proviron works especially well at preventing/halting this occurrence. Also unavoidable with a testosterone are androgenic side effects like oily skin, acne, increased aggression and body/facial hair growth. Those who may have a predisposition for male pattern baldness may also find that propionate will aggravate this condition. To help combat this one may choose to Propecia/Proscar, which will reduce the buildup of DHT in many androgen target tissues. This will help minimize related side effects (particularly hair loss) although it offers us no guarantees. And as with all testosterone products, propionate will also suppress endogenous testosterone production. The use of a testosterone stimulating drug like HCG and/or Clomid/Nolvadex is therefore a requirement in order to avoid enduring a post-cycle crash.

The most common dosage schedule for this compound (men) is to inject 50 to 100mg, every day or 2nd day. As with the more popular esters, the total weekly dosage would be in the range of 300-700mg. As with all testosterone compounds, this drug is most appropriately suited for bulking phases of training. Here it is most often combined with other strong agents such as Dianabol, Anadrol, or Deca-Durabolin, combinations that prove to work quite well. Propionate however is sometimes also used with nonaromatizing anabolics/androgens during cutting or dieting phases of training, a time when it’s fast action and androgenic nature are also appreciated. Popular stacks include a moderate dosage of propionate with an oral anabolic like Winstrol (15-35 mg daily), Primobolan (50-150mg daily) or oxandrolone (15-30mg daily). Provided the body fat percentage is sufficiently low, the look of dense muscularity can be notably improved (barring any excess estrogen buildup from the testosterone). One could also add a non-aromatizing androgen like trenbolone or Halotestin, which should have an even more extreme effect on subcutaneous body fat and muscle hardness. Of course with the added androgen content any related side effects will become much more pronounced.

Women who absolutely must use an injectable testosterone should only use this preparation. The dosage schedule should also be more spread out for a female bodybuilder, with injections coming every 5 to 7 days. The dosage obviously would be lower as well, generally in the range of 25mg to 50mg per injection. Androgenic activity should be less pronounced with this schedule, giving blood levels time to sufficiently decrease before the drug is administered again. In order to further reduce any risks, the duration of this cycle should not exceed 8 weeks. Should a stronger anabolic effect be needed, a small amount of Durabolin (Deca-Durabolin if unavailable), Oxandrolone or Winstrol could be added. Of course the risk of noticing virilizing effects from these drugs may increase, even with the addition of a mild anabolic. Since many of the masculinizing side effects of steroid use can be irreversible, it is very important for the female athlete to monitor the dosage, duration and incidence of side effects very closely.

Some Vet companies as well as UG labs are now even producing 250mg/ml dosage vials. This dosage is more shocking than it sounds at first next to all the 250mg enanthate and now cypionate products in circulation. Testosterone propionate is less oil soluble than Testosterone enanthate or cypionate, making a high dosage more difficult to achieve. Before this the highest concentration you could find of this steroid was 100mg/ml. Reaching 250 milligrams is no doubt a result of not simply adding more steroid to one ml of oil, but increasing the alcohol content in the solution considerably as well. This makes for a much more uncomfortable solution to inject. Although admittedly the highest dose of propionate you will ever find, users have been reporting that it is also intolerably painful. Most find they have to dilute the solution with other lower dosed steroids if they are to continue using the product. This should be no a surprise I guess with a steroid that already has a reputation as being painful to inject.

Testosterone enanthate:
Active Life: 15-16 days
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: Men 250-1000 mg/week
Acne: Yes
Water Retention: Yes, high
High Blood Pressure: Yes
Liver Toxic: Low, except in mega dosages
Aromatization:Yes, high
DHT Conversion: Yes, high
Decrease HPTA function: Yes, severe

Testosterone enanthate is an oil based injectable steroid, designed to slowly release testosterone from the injection site (depot). Once administered, serum concentrations of this hormone will rise for several days, and remain markedly elevated for approximately two weeks. It may actually take three weeks for the action of this drug to fully diminish. For medical purposes this is the most widely prescribed testosterone, used regularly to treat cases of hypogonadism and other disorders related to androgen deficiency. Since patients generally do not selfadminister such injections, a long acting steroid like this is a very welcome item. Therapy is clearly more comfortable in comparison to an ester like propionate, which requires a much more frequent dosage schedule.

Testosterone is a powerful hormone with notably prominent side effects. Much of which stem from the fact that testosterone exhibits a high tendency to convert into estrogen. Related side effects may therefore become a problem during a cycle. For starters, water retention can become quite noticeable. This can produce a clear loss of muscle definition, as subcutaneous fluids begin to build. The storage of excess body fat may further reduce the visibility of muscle features, another common problem with aromatizing steroids. The excess estrogen level during/after your cycle also has the potential to lead up to gynecomastia. Adding an ancillary drug like Nolvadex and/or Proviron is therefore advisable to those with a known sensitivity to this side effect. The anti-aromatase Arimidex, Femara, or Aromasin are a much better choices though. It is believed that the use of an anti-estrogen can slightly lower the anabolic effect of most androgen cycles (estrogen and water weight are often thought to facilitate strength and muscle gain), so one might want to see if such drugs are actually necessary before committing to use. A little puffiness under the nipple is a sign that gynecomastia is developing. If this is left to further develop into pronounced swelling, soreness and the growth of small lumps under the nipples, some form of action should be taken immediately to treat it (obviously quitting the drug or adding ancillaries like Nolvadex).

Being a testosterone product, all the standard androgenic side effects are also to be expected. Oily skin, acne, aggressiveness, facial/body hair growth and male pattern baldness are all possible. Older or more sensitive individuals might therefore choose to avoid testosterone products, and look toward milder anabolics like DecaDurabolin or Equipoise which produce fewer side effects. Others may opt to add the drug Proscar/Propecia, which will minimize the conversion of testosterone into DHT (dihydrotestosterone). With blood levels of this metabolite notably reduced, the impact of related side effects should also be reduced. With strong bulking drugs however, the user will generally expect to incur strong side effects and will often just tolerate them. Most athletes really do not find the testosterones all that uncomfortable (especially in the face of the end result), as can be seen with the great popularity of such compounds.

Although this particular ester is active for a much longer duration, most prefer to inject it on a weekly or bi-weekly basis in order to keep blood levels stable. The usual dosage would be in the range of 250mg-750mg a week. This level is quite sufficient, and should provide the user a rapid gain of strength and body weight. Above this level estrogenic side effects will no doubt become much more pronounced, possibly outweighing any new muscle gained. Those looking for greater bulk would be better served by adding an oral like Anadrol or Dianabol, combinations which prove to work great. If one wishes to use a testosterone yet retain a level of quality and definition to the physique, an injectable anabolic like DecaDurabolin or Equipoise may prove to be a better choice. Here we can use a lower dosage of enanthate, so as to gain an acceptable amount of muscle but keep the buildup of estrogen to a minimum.

With the proper administration of ancillary drugs, Nolva/Clomid and HCG, during post cycle recovery, much of the new muscle mass can be retained for a long time after the cycle has been stopped.

Thanks, i enjoy thinking beyond ‘first cycle’ critique every so often hah. So with the topic on esters, why don’t companies make short esters for EQ? Just a thought, let me know what you think

I don’t know why Cyp does not get more lovin’ around here

Cyp and enanthate are basically the same thing. I have no ill will towards cyp.

I think enanthate was here in the U.S. first, and cyp is just a Euro version that got here late.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Cyp and enanthate are basically the same thing. I have no ill will towards cyp.

I think enanthate was here in the U.S. first, and cyp is just a Euro version that got here late. [/quote]

To a point test is test. Some people won’t notice the differences. As for me though I’m a Cyp-ist thru and thru

IF you can find a good quality Prop, I’d go with that. Less estrogenic sides, i.e. gyno, water retention. Nowadays, seems like everyone is using UG labs or “homebrew”. The severe pain associated with prop post injection is a crash “in depot”. The substance crystalizes in the injection site due to improper solvent ratios. Try to find a prop with less benzyl alcohol, more benzyl benzoate and better yet, ethyl oleate as the carrier vs sesame oil.
Prop is also good as a taper off drug after a longer cycle with long esters such as Cyp or Enan. Good luck.

What is like if you mix enanthate and prop? Has anyone here played around with that? It seems like you could get the best of both worlds- fast acting, yet with the steady time-release quality of enanthate. It seems like this would work much like sustanon. Might the enanthate/prop in a single pop be a milder shot than to take than the prop by itself?

[quote]Radjxf wrote:
IF you can find a good quality Prop, I’d go with that. Less estrogenic sides, i.e. gyno, water retention. Nowadays, seems like everyone is using UG labs or “homebrew”. The severe pain associated with prop post injection is a crash “in depot”. The substance crystalizes in the injection site due to improper solvent ratios. Try to find a prop with less benzyl alcohol, more benzyl benzoate and better yet, ethyl oleate as the carrier vs sesame oil.
Prop is also good as a taper off drug after a longer cycle with long esters such as Cyp or Enan. Good luck.[/quote]

This is not entirely true. There is no proof whatsoever that prop is less androgenic. In fact - that statement is outright false.

Injection pain from propionate is also not completely true. Prop is a painful ester to many folk at the time of injection. I know several folks that just cannot take prop - yet they can take longer esters with no problem.

I will agree that if you are using UG gear, or are homebrewing, getting the right mix of BA and BB is crucial. Ethyl oleate will help, but if you are using super saturated concentrations (200mg/ml prop for instance) Ethyl Oleate will not stop the pain that is sure to follow.