T Nation

Proof of Defy's Expertise?

First of all, this is not me doubting Dr Saya or Defy. My experience has been positive so far. I went to them after talking to 3 endos and a urologist. I’m in NYC, and I’ve found other guys across the internet who have had pretty poor things to say about finding a TRT doctor here (surprisingly).

My girlfriend has been pretty involved in the process, which is great, I want her to be comfortable with it as well. I had a consultation with a PA at Defy last year, and my girlfriend thought the conversation sounded very sales oriented and pushy. I didn’t disagree with her.

A year later, I made a new appointment with Dr Saya, and was thrilled at the experience and began immediately. I’ve had some issues with HCG and E2, and while we were discussing it last night, I think it hit her that there is a possibility of my balls shrinking and permanent loss of fertility. She asked if I’d get a second opinion. While I was stubborn about it, I do trust her and plan on having her in my life, so I told her we could look into it.

While I look into that, is there anything out there to validate Defy’s expertise besides forum posts and bad experiences with endos and other TRT clinics?

Again, not trying to prove her wrong, or attack Defy!

Your balls may shrink a little. No biggie. You aren’t going to permanently lose fertility. If you were fertile before, you can go on HCG and be fertile when you want to be. You are also not necessarily going to be infertile on TRT. People do make babies on test without HCG or anything else. Don’t think that it’s birth control, it isn’t.


If true, this sounds pretty ideal. I’d love for it to function as birth control while on it, but I understand that may not be the case. I have always had low FSH though, so who knows.

Even if I could restart enough to conceive by using Clomid, that’d work for me. I hated Clomid, but a month or so on it to have a kid would be fine.

I stopped TRT after 2.5 years and all levels went right back to baseline, including FSH which stimulates the testicles to produce sperm. Word of mouth is going to be the only way you will hear about positive experiences regarding Defy Medical, sometimes you have to take leap of faith.

Where did you read that TRT causes permanent loss of fertility?

Most guys get some testicular atrophy on TRT. Most probably do not talk about it. Some report no atrophy. Guys have conceived while on AAS and TRT. Guys have conceived after going off and guys have conceived with hCG both while on TRT and after stopping.

You are certainly allowed to doubt any medical professional including defy. I think they tend to prescribe extra stuff to make themselves and empower :moneybag::moneybag:. Imo.

Just word of mouth again

That was my only thing, my first consultation with a PA seemed to push HCG out of fear of me losing my balls rather than giving me the option. But, I understand most of us are used to insurance paying for healthcare and don’t realize it is literally a business that needs money to operate as well. I think as long as they’re not hurting patients in the process, it’s reasonable to try to optimize their profits.

When does it usually begin, by the way? I think the last time I touched HCG was a week and a half ago

Testicular atrophy?

True, however it is never good “business” to sell your customer something they do not need.

Please do not take this wrong, but I think you deserve, and should expect, better.

Recommending products you do not need is hurting you if for no other reason than they are taking your money needlessly to “optimize their profits”. Thoroughly, and honestly, explaining the reasons for your recommendations and the pros and cons of all options is the best way to optimize profits ethically. A cookie cutter approach given to every patient not savvy enough to ask the right questions is not the way to go, in my opinion.

When you hear of someone saying they have treated “over 10,000 patients”, think about that. Do some math. Let’s say a doctor has 1000 patients and spends two hours a year working on each. That would include face to face time, or phone time in some cases, plus time spent reviewing labs, signing off on prescriptions, ordering follow-up labs and visits and the hated documentation time. Doctors spend more time looking at a computer screen documenting than looking at a patient. That would be 2000 hours a year, divide that by fifty weeks, that’s forty hours a week right there.

So…………where did the other 9000 patients go? If they ever did exist, they are gone now. Why do you think that is? Those types of practices, those experiencing constant patient turnover, must rely on constantly acquiring new patients to take the place of those lost and often have to throw out a wide mass advertising net.

I see your points.

Who do you work with?