T Nation

Prolotherapy - Any Experience Good or Bad?


#21

[quote]arcadiafades wrote:
BackInAction, I have no idea why someone injected your adductors with sodium morrhuate. That’s an extremely strong solution and it’s used to create microtrauma on ligaments directly. Some people also have allergic reactions to sodium morrhuate, it’s not to be taken lightly.

[/quote]

I totally agree. At the time when I was treated, I was not very educated on this therapy and used it as a last resort. The doctor who treated me was a pathetic doctor. He is arguably the top prolotherapy doctor around (I’m not getting into specifics for legal reasons). This is why I don’t trust these people or their therapy.

Can you tell me more about sodium morrhuate? It seems that you are knowledgeable in the solution.


#22

I’m guessing since you’re from Illinois, you went to the most well known. It’s ok, I know who you’re talking about. I’ll tell you more about sodium morrhuate later because I need to study, but just know that I’ve been treated by three doctors. One flat out refuses to use sodium morrhuate, another only added it to a dextrose solution after two sessions and in a tiny amount, and the third used it after 3 or 4 sessions. It is a gradual progression. Here’s what I would do if I were you because I don’t like seeing anyone in pain. Find the best physical therapist you can and work with him/her to restore the health of your adductors. If it’s muscle related and the muscle hasn’t ripped in half or stripped off the tendon, then you’re in the physical therapy realm of treatment. The hard part is finding someone skilled enough to get you through this ordeal.


#23

Prolotherapy

Number of sessions: 5-6 visits over a 6 month period for right shoulder (AC joint), 5-6 visits over a 6 month period for both knees (tibial tuberosity tendonitis),
Number of shots per visit: several, each location would get around 8-12 shots at varying angles and locations in and around the joint
Type of solution used: glucose
Area of injection: mentioned above
Cost: $120 single joint session $160 two joint session (included prolo and neural therapy)

Neural therapy - more for trigger point release,

Number of sessions: often would be part of the prolotherapy visit to treat muscles surrounding the joint in question. ie trigger point release of quads if treating my knee or trigger point release of pec minor, upper traps ect if treating my shoulder. ive also had neural done on all my rotator cuffs and a few spots on my posterior chain.
Number of shots per visit: several, each location would get around 8-12 shots at varying angles and locations
Type of solution used: procaine
Area of injection: mentioned above
Cost: $120 single joint session $160 two joint session (included prolo and neural therapy)

All I can say is that it worked for me and damned well. I spent lots of time with chiropractors and physiotherapy but nothing helped my shoulder come back more stable and strong than prolotherapy. It did take some time but after a decent AC joint separation I was at a loss. Benching even 185 was so painful and was far below what I was used to. But after a handful of visits and a few months of careful reintegration i havent had an issue with it since its been nearly 4 years.

As mentioned above it hurts like hell during and if you dont like needles you might have a hard time with prolo or neural therapy. My shoulder would stay fairly painful for 2-3 days after and then show some bruising and discoloration every time.

My knees followed a similar progression but i went from pain when rising out of bed and walking up and down stairs to no pain at all. It goes without saying i couldn’t run or squat without even worse pain but again, several prolo visits and careful reintegration and they have been as good as new.

Bottom line, if you have exhausted all options i would highly recommend you find a good prolo in your area and try it. It might seem a little costly but for me it was worth every penny.


#24

I’ve asked my dr about it and he would do it, but my insurance won’t pay for it since they are considering “experimental” . And since it has to be done in sterile environment (hospital) price is astronomical $5000!!!


#25

@BackInAction, GluteusGigantis

Take the following for what it is: an opinion based on my own experience

Just imagine you’ve all but exhausted conservative treatments, have been to lots of physicans (all of them recommended to you, btw) and no one was able to really help you. Almost a year has gone by without any improvement on your condition.
Then, you get prolotherapy. And after a while your condition starts to improve. By a lot.

I’ve never heard/read about the placebo effect being effective enough to restabilise a joint.

Glad it worked for you, creeep.


#26

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
@BackInAction, GluteusGigantis

Take the following for what it is: an opinion based on my own experience

Just imagine you’ve all but exhausted conservative treatments, have been to lots of physicans (all of them recommended to you, btw) and no one was able to really help you. Almost a year has gone by without any improvement on your condition.
Then, you get prolotherapy. And after a while your condition starts to improve. By a lot.

I’ve never heard/read about the placebo effect being effective enough to restabilise a joint.

Glad it worked for you, creeep.

[/quote]

Imagine you’ve been in pain for 5 years. You’re getting worse and worse. You’ve been recommended to many of the top doctors in the country. Finally, you read about an alternative therapy that’s safe and supposedly works. You try it. And you get worse.

This is what happened to me.

Every story can be told two ways.


#27

Sad, but true - don’t give up, though.


#28

Hanley, I’m sure you’ve seen this:


I thought the Evidence based medicine section (Cochrane review) to be interesting.
I have’nt done much research but it seems somewhat hit and miss to me.
Wha other treatments would you consider?


#29

Sorry to bump an old post, but some of my buddies from westside suggested this to me when I hurt my pec… I will be trying it like they said.

I will report back here, assuming I can get my hands on saline.


#30

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#31

Number of sessions: 3
Number of shots per visit: 60-80
Type of solution used: Sodium morrhuate/ascelera and Platelet Rich Plasma
Area of injection: right hip labrum
Cost: Around $2250 (PRP is expensive!)

Outcome and current status: Am like 90% better, I can now raise and lower my hip with external rotation without it catching. Still have some issues with internal rotation, but I plan to see him again and if progress continues at this pace I should 100% with one or two more treatments

Probably saw the same doc as BackinAction since I did this while living in Chicago. FWIW he no longer uses sodium morrhuate, now he uses ascelera and that has proved to be much nicer to the body. Was on the edge of surgery before I did this and now I think I can make a complete recovery.

Like what everyone else on here has mentioned, prolotherapy results depend on the skill of whoever is administering it. IMHO if you see someone who does it on the side, you’re not really going to get much out of it, but if you see a specialist who only does prolo you’ll have much better success.


#32

[quote]creeep wrote:
Prolotherapy

Number of sessions: 5-6 visits over a 6 month period for right shoulder (AC joint), 5-6 visits over a 6 month period for both knees (tibial tuberosity tendonitis),
Number of shots per visit: several, each location would get around 8-12 shots at varying angles and locations in and around the joint
Type of solution used: glucose
Area of injection: mentioned above
Cost: $120 single joint session $160 two joint session (included prolo and neural therapy)

Neural therapy - more for trigger point release,

Number of sessions: often would be part of the prolotherapy visit to treat muscles surrounding the joint in question. ie trigger point release of quads if treating my knee or trigger point release of pec minor, upper traps ect if treating my shoulder. ive also had neural done on all my rotator cuffs and a few spots on my posterior chain.
Number of shots per visit: several, each location would get around 8-12 shots at varying angles and locations
Type of solution used: procaine
Area of injection: mentioned above
Cost: $120 single joint session $160 two joint session (included prolo and neural therapy)

All I can say is that it worked for me and damned well. I spent lots of time with chiropractors and physiotherapy but nothing helped my shoulder come back more stable and strong than prolotherapy. It did take some time but after a decent AC joint separation I was at a loss. Benching even 185 was so painful and was far below what I was used to. But after a handful of visits and a few months of careful reintegration i havent had an issue with it since its been nearly 4 years.

As mentioned above it hurts like hell during and if you dont like needles you might have a hard time with prolo or neural therapy. My shoulder would stay fairly painful for 2-3 days after and then show some bruising and discoloration every time.

My knees followed a similar progression but i went from pain when rising out of bed and walking up and down stairs to no pain at all. It goes without saying i couldn’t run or squat without even worse pain but again, several prolo visits and careful reintegration and they have been as good as new.

Bottom line, if you have exhausted all options i would highly recommend you find a good prolo in your area and try it. It might seem a little costly but for me it was worth every penny.
[/quote]

This sounds like my exact situation. I also live in BC, could you possibly give me the name of the doctor who did your prolo sessions. I have tried Tim brown in white rock and am not too pleased.


#33

I have a similar pain in my shoulder and have gotten treatment in white rock. BC. I am not too pleased, however, would you mind giving me the name of your doctor?

Thanks,

Jared


#34

[quote]CacheMnyMustang wrote:
Number of sessions: 3
Number of shots per visit: 60-80
Type of solution used: Sodium morrhuate/ascelera and Platelet Rich Plasma
Area of injection: right hip labrum
Cost: Around $2250 (PRP is expensive!)

Outcome and current status: Am like 90% better, I can now raise and lower my hip with external rotation without it catching. Still have some issues with internal rotation, but I plan to see him again and if progress continues at this pace I should 100% with one or two more treatments

Probably saw the same doc as BackinAction since I did this while living in Chicago. FWIW he no longer uses sodium morrhuate, now he uses ascelera and that has proved to be much nicer to the body. Was on the edge of surgery before I did this and now I think I can make a complete recovery.

Like what everyone else on here has mentioned, prolotherapy results depend on the skill of whoever is administering it. IMHO if you see someone who does it on the side, you’re not really going to get much out of it, but if you see a specialist who only does prolo you’ll have much better success.[/quote]

I have had 8 sessions. For my ribs. On the left side I had ligament laxity somewhere between t1-t9. All the idiot fcking chiros I saw just made it worse. They told me my rib head was slipping so they kept popping it back in. By the 4th visit I said, if my rib head is slipping and you keep popping it back in and it slips again. Logic would tell me your just making something thats loose, looser. He assured me that this was “the way”. I stopped going to all these fcking quacks but by that time there manipulation has caused the same rib in my back to become loose at the sternum side as well. After a year of waiting other ribs started to slip.

Now I think I have 3 ribs that slip. One of my false ribs also slips and has calcium deposit from arthritis kicking in. The longer I waited the more the instability spread.

Prolotherapy seems to be the only solution for my problem. There doesnt seem to be a surgery for rib laxity besides resection which Im betting I couldnt lift if I had it done. With modern technology youd think they could just scope you and weld some kind of rubber super glue adhesive in there and fix it.

Morrhuate is a better proliferant than Asclera. Morrhuate was a staple solution in most prolos arsenal. The more localized inflammation you can receive the better. Unfortunately it stopped being produced this year. If I can ever get my hands on it I plan on buying 5-10 vials. Most doctors seem to cap you off at 10cc, in my case I need more like 20-40cc.


#35

Working for me for sure. I have tendonosis on my right tricep and left posterior deltoid/infraspinatus, and a strained right rectus femoris which has taken 6 months to heal (a lot quicker recovery since the prolo) and lower right back near sciatica.

i go every 4 weeks.

Pain does suck for sure for a few days but the results are to my satisfaction.

Between A.R.T. and Prolotherapy I have increased the ROM of my extremeties and the tendons are surely healing. The doctor can feel the tendon as he inserts and moves around the needle and informs me how each body part is healing. If the tendon isnt “tight” he can tell that the healing process is not yet complete.

My training partner thinks that Prolo is Bull$hit because “no professional does or has ever gotten prolo”. I personally cant find any IFBB pro’s who have gotten it but I cant see there being NONE out there.

MiKe


#36

my left knee had given me issues for years.

I did all the re-hab/physical therapy. ie, strengthining VMO, activating the glutes, foam rolling, massage, etc… etc… etc…
i did get SOME pain reduction although was still un able to train 100% and i was in some degree of pain pretty much 24 hours/day.

Eventually i got the knee imaged, which showed some micro-tears in my patella tendon.

Tried Prolotherapy. had 6 visits. each time we injected 10cc of dextrose solution. (5cc in to the patella tendon, and 5 into ACL, MCL, PCL, LCL evenly

the improvement after the very first treatment was very noticeable after about 1 week and each session after that helped a bit more. I can now squat more then ever and the knee only very occasionally aches slightly.

Im a big fan.


#37

Their are some studies coming out as of late showing that prolotherapy may be effective


#38

Your doctor did both prolotherapy and dry needling? Who was your doctor?


#39

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Hanley wrote:
What’s peoples experience been with prolotherapy? Viable alternative to surgery? Snake oil? Depends on the severity of the injury?!

Anyone heard anything good, bad or indifferent about it?!

My shoulder’s epically unstable in an overhead snatch grip position and I’m looking at all treatment options.

Cheers :)[/quote]

In my personal experience, prolotherapy was a terrible decision for me. These doctors are not very knowledgeable (and I went to one of the best ones in the country for this).

Please don’t do it.[/quote]
I agree. It was very painful and I left with more pain in my knee than when I arrived.


#40

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
@BackInAction, GluteusGigantis

Take the following for what it is: an opinion based on my own experience

Just imagine you’ve all but exhausted conservative treatments, have been to lots of physicans (all of them recommended to you, btw) and no one was able to really help you. Almost a year has gone by without any improvement on your condition.
Then, you get prolotherapy. And after a while your condition starts to improve. By a lot.

I’ve never heard/read about the placebo effect being effective enough to restabilise a joint.

Glad it worked for you, creeep.

[/quote]
How would prolo injections “stabilize” a joint? Sorry but you sound like you are either ignorant or have been lied to. Joint stability comes from your muscles not from blood being injected into your tendons.