Prolactin .vs. Progesterone...and Estrogen???

[quote]rainjack wrote:
DO you want to get really confused? [/quote]

haha no joke![quote]

Read this:

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/progesterone.cfm

[/quote]

thanks for the link RJ.

It seems that besides progesterone’s relation to estrogen that it really isn’t that bad to have floating around the body. Thats what I got out of the read, I kept thinking, well if prog. is so bad then why does it do all of this good stuff :stuck_out_tongue: lol

Some of the things I liked where how it prevents tests conversion to dht, is good for the prostate, prevents cancer, etc…

but yea this just adds to the confusion.

there is a lot of info out there on the three i’m talking about and it’s going to take a little more research to grasp how these hormones affect a male.

Gerdy

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:

GABA is supposed to be anti-prolactin which can be good during a 19-nor cycle. If some people get night sweats and insomnia from tren then taking GABA to help with sleep might not be a bad idea on that end too. Usually I’m not too fond of the idea of taking chemicals that are used in the brain such as melatonin and GABA, etc, but this might not be a bad idea.

Gerdy[/quote]

Could you direct me to a link that goes into more detail about the effects of GABA on prolactin levels. I would love to be able to possibly replace bromo or caber and just run GABA for the duration of my Nor-19 use.

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
DO you want to get really confused?

haha no joke!

Read this:

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/progesterone.cfm

thanks for the link RJ.

It seems that besides progesterone’s relation to estrogen that it really isn’t that bad to have floating around the body. Thats what I got out of the read, I kept thinking, well if prog. is so bad then why does it do all of this good stuff :stuck_out_tongue: lol

Some of the things I liked where how it prevents tests conversion to dht, is good for the prostate, prevents cancer, etc…

but yea this just adds to the confusion.

there is a lot of info out there on the three i’m talking about and it’s going to take a little more research to grasp how these hormones affect a male.

Gerdy

[/quote]

It has been said to me for several years by several different people, that the progesterone is not the problem with 19-nors - it is the excess prolactin. people call it progesterone gyno, and it should probably be more accurately described as prolactin induced gyno.

Like AS said - if you keep your estrogen in check while on cycle - you should be fine wrt progesterone and prolactin.

I’m not any sort of authority on orals - but I would never make the mistake of thinking one steroid will help counteract the sides of another - especially when you are talking about trying to manage the enodcrine system, i.e. progesterone and estrogen.

My question is, how does prolactin come into play among the three? Is it a function of the estrogen, or the progesterone.

So you are saying you wouldnt make the mistake of thinking that masteron would help with the sides of test, or proviron with the sides of test, or winstrol with the sides of drol or deca or tren?

Winstrol is still up in the air, granted… but drostanolone and mesterolone are both anti-aromatase in their nature, so DO definitely help with estrogen sides…

[quote] Brook wrote:
So you are saying you wouldnt make the mistake of thinking that masteron would help with the sides of test, or proviron with the sides of test, or winstrol with the sides of drol or deca or tren?

Winstrol is still up in the air, granted… but drostanolone and mesterolone are both anti-aromatase in their nature, so DO definitely help with estrogen sides…[/quote]

I wouldn’t depend on them exclusively to do the job an AI is designed to do. I will take the benefit, but I would not take a steroid exclusively for that reason.

I take Masteron because it hardens me up. The fact that it acts in a beneficial manner on SHBG is a plus. I still take adex.

Anyone who takes proviron, or masteron and thinks their AI bases are covered during a cycle should seriously consider whether or not they are intelligent enough to be doing a cycle in the first place.

That is an ignorant, if not down right dangerous, practice.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Brook wrote:
So you are saying you wouldnt make the mistake of thinking that masteron would help with the sides of test, or proviron with the sides of test, or winstrol with the sides of drol or deca or tren?

Winstrol is still up in the air, granted… but drostanolone and mesterolone are both anti-aromatase in their nature, so DO definitely help with estrogen sides…

I wouldn’t depend on them exclusively to do the job an AI is designed to do. I will take the benefit, but I would not take a steroid exclusively for that reason.

I take Masteron because it hardens me up. The fact that it acts in a beneficial manner on SHBG is a plus. I still take adex.

Anyone who takes proviron, or masteron and thinks their AI bases are covered during a cycle should seriously consider whether or not they are intelligent enough to be doing a cycle in the first place.

That is an ignorant, if not down right dangerous, practice.
[/quote]

What are your thoughts and or experiences with winstrol to combat sides from anadrol? If not winstrol what methods do you prefer?

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:

GABA is supposed to be anti-prolactin which can be good during a 19-nor cycle. If some people get night sweats and insomnia from tren then taking GABA to help with sleep might not be a bad idea on that end too. Usually I’m not too fond of the idea of taking chemicals that are used in the brain such as melatonin and GABA, etc, but this might not be a bad idea.

Gerdy

Could you direct me to a link that goes into more detail about the effects of GABA on prolactin levels. I would love to be able to possibly replace bromo or caber and just run GABA for the duration of my Nor-19 use.[/quote]

If you open the link that JJ sent me and scroll down you will see it. All it really says is “GABA is anti-prolactin”. I haven’t found any other research on that yet, but if I do I’ll post it or pm you.

Gerdy

[quote]2thepain wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Brook wrote:
So you are saying you wouldnt make the mistake of thinking that masteron would help with the sides of test, or proviron with the sides of test, or winstrol with the sides of drol or deca or tren?

Winstrol is still up in the air, granted… but drostanolone and mesterolone are both anti-aromatase in their nature, so DO definitely help with estrogen sides…

I wouldn’t depend on them exclusively to do the job an AI is designed to do. I will take the benefit, but I would not take a steroid exclusively for that reason.

I take Masteron because it hardens me up. The fact that it acts in a beneficial manner on SHBG is a plus. I still take adex.

Anyone who takes proviron, or masteron and thinks their AI bases are covered during a cycle should seriously consider whether or not they are intelligent enough to be doing a cycle in the first place.

That is an ignorant, if not down right dangerous, practice.

What are your thoughts and or experiences with winstrol to combat sides from anadrol? If not winstrol what methods do you prefer?[/quote]

I have never taken an oral. I have never had any interest in them simply because of the hepatoxicity associated with them, and my enjoyment of bourbon.

I can’t offer any opinion on the subject without talking out of my ass, and I try to avoid doing that every chance I get.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Brook wrote:
So you are saying you wouldnt make the mistake of thinking that masteron would help with the sides of test, or proviron with the sides of test, or winstrol with the sides of drol or deca or tren?

Winstrol is still up in the air, granted… but drostanolone and mesterolone are both anti-aromatase in their nature, so DO definitely help with estrogen sides…

I wouldn’t depend on them exclusively to do the job an AI is designed to do. I will take the benefit, but I would not take a steroid exclusively for that reason.

I take Masteron because it hardens me up. The fact that it acts in a beneficial manner on SHBG is a plus. I still take adex.

Anyone who takes proviron, or masteron and thinks their AI bases are covered during a cycle should seriously consider whether or not they are intelligent enough to be doing a cycle in the first place.

That is an ignorant, if not down right dangerous, practice.
[/quote]

Yup - i just wanted to clarify what you meant.

I totally agree.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
DO you want to get really confused?

haha no joke!

Read this:

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/progesterone.cfm

thanks for the link RJ.

It seems that besides progesterone’s relation to estrogen that it really isn’t that bad to have floating around the body. Thats what I got out of the read, I kept thinking, well if prog. is so bad then why does it do all of this good stuff :stuck_out_tongue: lol

Some of the things I liked where how it prevents tests conversion to dht, is good for the prostate, prevents cancer, etc…

but yea this just adds to the confusion.

there is a lot of info out there on the three i’m talking about and it’s going to take a little more research to grasp how these hormones affect a male.

Gerdy

It has been said to me for several years by several different people, that the progesterone is not the problem with 19-nors - it is the excess prolactin. people call it progesterone gyno, and it should probably be more accurately described as prolactin induced gyno.

Like AS said - if you keep your estrogen in check while on cycle - you should be fine wrt progesterone and prolactin.

I’m not any sort of authority on orals - but I would never make the mistake of thinking one steroid will help counteract the sides of another - especially when you are talking about trying to manage the enodcrine system, i.e. progesterone and estrogen.

My question is, how does prolactin come into play among the three? Is it a function of the estrogen, or the progesterone.

[/quote]

I agree that if estrogen is controlled then one should be fine. My only question is that some people get gyno off of tren alone. This is the same question I believe as your last statement about how prolactin comes into play among the three. Also many people get gyno from otc prohormones, most of which now a days seem to be progestin based if I’m not mistaken.

I also feel that i’m leaning towards what you said about not relying on another steroid to combat the sides of each other, but relying on the ancillaries. The fact that the other steroids work well with combatting sides is just a plus and I think that it should be taken into consideration when planning out a cycle. I think that if I were ever to take drol I’d also take winni just because it may harden up the soft drol gains. But then again this is the research phase, I’m not in the act of doing it so no worries…

Thanks again RJ.

Gerdy

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:

I agree that if estrogen is controlled then one should be fine. My only question is that some people get gyno off of tren alone. This is the same question I believe as your last statement about how prolactin comes into play among the three. Also many people get gyno from otc prohormones, most of which now a days seem to be progestin based if I’m not mistaken.[/quote]

Tren gyno is a function of prolactin. Being that prohormones are so sketchy these days, I don’t know how one could make an accurate determination as to what causes the gyno with them. From what I have read, progestins do not cause gyno, but are infact anti-estrogenic.

This link does as good a job as any at trying to explain some of what we are talking about here.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:

I agree that if estrogen is controlled then one should be fine. My only question is that some people get gyno off of tren alone. This is the same question I believe as your last statement about how prolactin comes into play among the three. Also many people get gyno from otc prohormones, most of which now a days seem to be progestin based if I’m not mistaken.

Tren gyno is a function of prolactin. Being that prohormones are so sketchy these days, I don’t know how one could make an accurate determination as to what causes the gyno with them. From what I have read, progestins do not cause gyno, but are infact anti-estrogenic.

This link does as good a job as any at trying to explain some of what we are talking about here.

[/quote]

right on…thanks again man.

DG

(referring to RJ’s posted article) consumption of phytoestrogens as a SERM? The effects would be mild in nature, IMO, but interesting nonetheless. So the true culprit still remains estrogen, due to the fact that progesterone is an estrogen antagonist. I’m still completely in the dark of the link between trenbolone and prolactin DISCLAIMER: All of the information is merely my understanding from the article that was posted by T-Nation member Rainjack.

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
(referring to RJ’s posted article) consumption of phytoestrogens as a SERM? The effects would be mild in nature, IMO, but interesting nonetheless. So the true culprit still remains estrogen, due to the fact that progesterone is an estrogen antagonist. I’m still completely in the dark of the link between trenbolone and prolactin DISCLAIMER: All of the information is merely my understanding from the article that was posted by T-Nation member Rainjack.[/quote]

Give it a rest, asshole.

This is like the 4th or 5th time today you have been yipping at my heels like some sort of internet chihuahua.

It is evident that you lack the balls to start a real argument with me, so sit down, shut up, and color.

Am i rteading this right its not the progestin but the estrogen that needs to be controlled.

Then why is adex never prescribed for tren gyno???

Only caber or bromo???

Hmmm

[quote]judgeroybean wrote:
Am i rteading this right its not the progestin but the estrogen that needs to be controlled.

Then why is adex never prescribed for tren gyno???

Only caber or bromo???

Hmmm
[/quote]

Tren does not deal with progesterone, it raises prolactin.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
(referring to RJ’s posted article) consumption of phytoestrogens as a SERM? The effects would be mild in nature, IMO, but interesting nonetheless. So the true culprit still remains estrogen, due to the fact that progesterone is an estrogen antagonist. I’m still completely in the dark of the link between trenbolone and prolactin DISCLAIMER: All of the information is merely my understanding from the article that was posted by T-Nation member Rainjack.

Give it a rest, asshole.

This is like the 4th or 5th time today you have been yipping at my heels like some sort of internet chihuahua.

It is evident that you lack the balls to start a real argument with me, so sit down, shut up, and color.

[/quote]

Not this time Rainjack, I was merely posting what I’ve learned from your post, while giving the article credit for my new found knowledge and you for posting it.

I’ve got some studying to do on this one!!

[quote]judgeroybean wrote:
I’ve got some studying to do on this one!!
[/quote]

IF someone can figure out the connection between progesterone and prolactin, I would certainly feel much better.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
judgeroybean wrote:
I’ve got some studying to do on this one!!

IF someone can figure out the connection between progesterone and prolactin, I would certainly feel much better. [/quote]

x2…

also, maybe I’m retared and we already figured this out, but how does prolactin cause gyno? If one of the links has said how please just point me to it :stuck_out_tongue: lol

Gerdy