[quote] Brook wrote:
Yup… i have read that Drol is kinda an unknown in the why it can give such serious estrogenic sides - whether it is through directly activating the estrogen receptor or progesterone… all i know is that 20mg of nolva taken with the drol makes a difference in the occurance of gyno sides when compared to no tamoxifen (but letro, proviron and winstrol all used).
As for progestin/progesterone etc. Gerdy, read this one… it is in my favourites as i am fascinated with the roles of those 3 hormones myself.
I know that progesterone has a job and effects very similar to estrogen, and yes - it is a big player in women as it has alot of roles during pregnancy. It is the increase of progesterone that is one of the reasons fat and breast size increase when a woman becomes pregnant. ONE of the reasons.
I think that it agonizes estrogen to ‘potentate’ estrogenic effects. (excuse my limited vocabulary)
Prolactin as Altered said is related to the satisfaction after sex (in men) and is why it is such a potent libido killer - and is the main reason that caber is such a libido enhancer!
It is this that leads me to suspect that one of the main reasons 19-Nortestosterone steroids are that much more suppressive, or libido crushing at least, is down to the prolactin activity.
Even if the suppression of the HPTA isnt much more harsh. I know that a single dose of 100mg of Nandrolone caused full HPTA shutdown within 1 week and took 3 weeks to recover from. This was a mix of one long and one short ester. I dont think test is quite as suppressive - BUT, in the doses bodybuilders use both drugs cause 1005 suppression and shutdown, so the difference is kinda academic.
I believe that all 3 are needed for lactation - and as with all things in this game, it is genetics that dictate how liable one is to get this problem. ie. Naturally high levels of one of the hormones or naturally sensitive receptors to one of the hormones or some other factor i havent comprehended.
I think (again, as Altered stated) that a good dose of an AI should be all that is needed to sort out most of the sides from progesterone/prolactin… and without estrogen there will be no lactation nor gyno… I personally choose letrozole, and i think in this case it would be even more sensible as there are some studies to suggest that it has anti-prog. properties.
Plus libido isnt affected at dosages of less than 0.25mg (1/10th of a 2.5mg tablet! Value for money or what?)[/quote]
I read that letro could possibly be anti-prog which would be sweet to run when combining test/19-nor like you said, get the job done and value for money. My only concern is that letro might be too harsh on E. I read in the latest MD that too little E in the system and IGF-1 levels plummet which would suck no matter what other types of aas you where running.[quote]
Back to the drol issue - i have wondered if it may stimulate BOTH the progesterone and estrogen receptors to a degree…? Or if it somehow stimulates the progesterone receptor in SOME people due to a particular hormonal environment or some other unknown factor… Just a thought - no basis in reality of course!
I cannot comment on tren - never having used it Gerdy, but i have used Nandrolone extensively, and have never had a problem with prog. sides. And seeing as deca aromatizes to a degree too, the progesterogenic and estrogenic activity combined should readily cause gyno in me - as i have a small (managed) case already.
But it doesnt.
I personally would not have caber on hand if i ran a 19-nor steroid again… i think it is overkill on cycle, as a good dose of AI should sort the weakest link. (plus with nolva on hand and ALWAYS using proviron…)
I would however think about caber for PCT - i think that its anti-prolactin effect could be just what the doctor ordered for deca(/tren) shutdown/inhib. It is something i think i may try one day.[/quote]
So you think proviron should be added anytime that test is ran in a cycle which will pretty much be everytime?
What about winni having the same ability regaurding shbg as proviron. I understand that they are completely two different drugs, but if one were running winni then what would the reason be fore the proviron. I’ve got limited research on winni so far and even less on proviron.[quote]
*…Just want to point out… this is just a post of what i think i know about these hormones - it isnt gospel and i am not infallable. It is a multi-way discussion, not a lecture.
I feel that some people are a little misguided as to the purpose of this forum and the roles of the posters.
No-one here is all knowing or all-seeing, and i feel that sometimes people forget that fact, along with forgetting that none of us are experts in this field (although there are 1 or 2 who are very close) - we are all just trying to learn, enjoy, bodybuild, powerlift and socialize… and build some big fuck-off muscles along the way (with the odd smattering of pussy too!).
I am just a bloke talking to like-minded individuals about shit we are interested in… thats all*
LOL thanks man for the reply and the link. The last few paragraphs is one of the reasons I like you man Totally agree, straight to the point, and with a little humor added in for good measure. lol