[quote]Cy Willson wrote:
.[/quote]
This guy knows his shit people. Wow.
Cy makes some interesting points with regards to potential problems with the “legal” steroids. However, I don’t see harm in giving them a try. If intolerable or undesireable side-effects are beginning to manifest, throw the stuff in the trash. I can’t see anyone falling over dead because they took the stuff. You can give the stuff a try and still err on the side of caution.
[quote]pez11 wrote:
Cy makes some interesting points with regards to potential problems with the “legal” steroids. However, I don’t see harm in giving them a try. [/quote]
How about giving your money and supporting companies who intentionally break the law and cause FDA crackdowns which lead to banning of supplements that are sold here?
Cy,
Thank you for the wealth of info you just dropped on us. This is why I continue to make this board home. Please flood our brains with this stuff at any time on any subject.
Monopoly
That’s certainly a reasonable approach.
However, I actually see that I left something else out of importance. That being, hepatotoxicity. I think it’s great that most people understand that it’s not as much of a major issue as purported in the past, at least with those androgens which were marketed to humans at one point in time.
However, as before, I think that it has led to this thinking that any anabolic steroid that’s 17 alpha-alkylated isn’t going to be all that bad when it comes to liver toxicity. However, it’s important to understand that there most certainly can be varying degrees when you’re talking about hundreds of different androgens. In the cases where there’s absolutely no information on the potential toxicity, that’s where I get concerned.
I agree, if one notices adverse effects, they should discontinue, hence no harm done. Unfortunately, some adverse effects are not something one can perceive, for example hepatotoxicity (potential for thromboembolism is another). The point at which one could easily notice symptoms, a great deal of damage may have already been done. Now, because of this possibility, I’ve seen some people recommend that one simply use these products for short periods of time (e.g., 2 weeks) and while that is a good approach, it’s making some assumptions.
There certainly are compounds which have such great a great degree of toxicity that significant damage can be done in hours, let alone days or weeks. The dose used with these compounds is also something arbitrarily made up, complicating matters more with respect to this.
Now, to address that, I’ve seen that some people will have certain hepatic values monitored before and during such cycles. That is the best approach, unfortunately, it’s a small minority that does such a thing.
Also yes, logic would indicate that if one experiences such adverse effects, they should stop. Unfortunately, and I’ve seen this over and over, people will speak of the exact adverse effects I mentioned in the previous post and the response by others will be along the lines of: “Oh, I had that too, no worries, just take some ibuprofen and plan on getting plenty of sleep.”
[quote]pez11 wrote:
Cy makes some interesting points with regards to potential problems with the “legal” steroids. However, I don’t see harm in giving them a try. If intolerable or undesireable side-effects are beginning to manifest, throw the stuff in the trash. I can’t see anyone falling over dead because they took the stuff. You can give the stuff a try and still err on the side of caution.[/quote]
[quote]pez11 wrote:
Cy makes some interesting points with regards to potential problems with the “legal” steroids. However, I don’t see harm in giving them a try. If intolerable or undesireable side-effects are beginning to manifest, throw the stuff in the trash. I can’t see anyone falling over dead because they took the stuff. You can give the stuff a try and still err on the side of caution.[/quote]
you’re an idiot. you are what’s wrong with the supplement industry and why these people exist. why would you take chances with your health on something that may or may not work? Why would you risk long term damage to your health? Why risk fucking myself up because I wanna be a guinea pig for some supplement company that is putting this crap out with no testing.
I’d rather go with the real thing and risk the legal consequences.
[quote]pez11 wrote:
Cy makes some interesting points with regards to potential problems with the “legal” steroids. However, I don’t see harm in giving them a try. If intolerable or undesireable side-effects are beginning to manifest, throw the stuff in the trash. I can’t see anyone falling over dead because they took the stuff. You can give the stuff a try and still err on the side of caution.[/quote]
Brilliant
[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
How about giving your money and supporting companies who intentionally break the law and cause FDA crackdowns which lead to banning of supplements that are sold here?
[/quote]
Actually, I agree with you. I’ve heard this many times before, but I was strictly addressing the health aspect. Did I say I ever bought/used any of these illegal “legal” steroids? No, that is your assumption.
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
you’re an idiot. you are what’s wrong with the supplement industry and why these people exist. why would you take chances with your health on something that may or may not work? Why would you risk long term damage to your health? Why risk fucking myself up because I wanna be a guinea pig for some supplement company that is putting this crap out with no testing.
I’d rather go with the real thing and risk the legal consequences.
[/quote]
Look smartass, I’ve never even taken one of these more recent “legal” steroids. The only steroid I ever really tried, legal or otherwise, was topical 4-diol. That was the last time I tried any steroid – at least 5 yrs. ago. Okay, so you would rather use the real thing and risk legal consequences. I would prefer not to, as I am a licensed health professional (RN) and have a whole lot more to lose than you, such as my ability to earn a decent living and my reputation within my profession.
I did a cycle of Superdrol when it first came out and ‘everyone’ was trying it. Put on about 10lb’s, but… well you can read about it here http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=746426
[quote]freejury wrote:
I did a cycle of Superdrol when it first came out and ‘everyone’ was trying it. Put on about 10lb’s, but… well you can read about it here http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=746426[/quote]
The problem with your cycle was probably not due to Superdrol but more so due to poor PCT and improper nutrition and work out schedule.
The first time I ever took Prohormones and then steroids I injured my shoulder and had intense cramping in my fore arm. The problem wasn’t the roids or prohormones it was that I was working out to hard for too long with out proper nutrition.
Now three years later I am a more concious lifter and I have few problems despite a little shoulder pain on Winstrol.
You said that Superdrol left you tired and with no sex drive, thats because you didn’t go through with proper PCT, you should be using Tamoxifen or Clomifene (though I prefer Tamoxifen because Clomifene makes me depressed as hell).
After any cycle there is going to be some negative side effects but they can be controlled. After my last cycle I found myself a little depressed (due to low test levels) for about a week and a half (even with the use of Tamoxifen), though I lost only a little strength. This cycle I will use HCG as well to help prevent low testosterone levels.
Everyone must remember that what goes up must come down, there will always be at least some negative sides to steroid use, especially post cycle.
so im 19 1/2 and am about to do the halodrol/orastan/novedex stack. any suggestions or reasons why its a bad idea?
Yeah, get a trainer bra for the new set of breasts you will get… Seriously, if you are 19 and a half, just lift, eat, sleep, repeat… Using steroids now will DAMAGE you, you don’t even need steroids right now. You should still be brimming with testosterone…
[quote]klown388 wrote:
so im 19 1/2 and am about to do the halodrol/orastan/novedex stack. any suggestions or reasons why its a bad idea?
[/quote]
yea, the fact you are 19.5
For my first cycle I used Orastan-E and Phera-flex which rocked my world. I gained 20 pounds and my bench sky rocketed which was extremely helpful for the State track meet and also the all-star football game.
However I don’t promote the use, its up to you and what you want and what your goals are in life. May be some future side effects but some people don’t care, like me, cause I don’t really care if I get to stick around on the earth an extra 10 years to rot in a retirement home. Your choice good luck everyone.
[quote]Split wrote:
you sound strong muscle, cept your legs, they sound very very week, 600 is not alot for leg press at all.
[/quote]
Not flaming the OP, but neither is his DL in relation to his bench. Hit the posterior chain for about a year and get those wheels goin!
Just to chime in…I used Superdrol after it came out before anyone really seemed to know it was a “steroid” and not some innocuous supp. I thought everything was wonderful when my strength and weight jumped…but…low and behold, a few months after my bottle ran out my gyno appeared. Then I had to walk the Letro route to try to bring the lump down.
I guess with all these new “designers” or whathave you, who knows what they’ll be called or what kinds of sides will appear 6-8 months down the road like ‘good ole’ Superdrol did to me and many others. Be wary…