Does anyone know if there is a good prohormone for women to use in a cutting cycle? My wife wants to do a cycle with me but not to sure what to get if anything. From what I can find they are not a good idea for women. She is already in good awesome shape just wanting to get a little harder without getting to bulky. she is hardcore though as long as she doesnâ??t get hairy I can handle a little aggression. lol
I recommend Anavar. BUT have her do plenty and I mean plenty research and I would not go beyond 5mg. But that is purely personal and I highly recommend her diet be absolutely immaculate, body fat low. Many people say women don't need PCT; this is simply not true.
She better be prepared for estrogen rebound, i.e fat, water retention, depression, low libido, joint pains, ect... It will affect her liver, her heart and it will affect her endocrine system and it will affect her mood. Whilst on, you better be prepared; libido goes sky high.
thanks for the words of wisdom. I might be in for some fun while she is on cycle. chances are if we do it togher it should work out well. Mine will be a couple weeks longer though so i will get a head start. I will do some reserch into Anavar and Boldenone.
What shold she use for PCT? what do you guys think is best?
No.. Anavar is a 'real' steroid.. an Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid mate.. and expensive too. it is suitable for women as it is a mild androgen.
Boldenone is an AAS also, and it also is a fairly mild androgen, but WC was talking about BOLD400(or whatever it's called) - a pro-hormone that is a few steps away from the Boldenone AA-Steroid.
The thing is, this always sounds so much better on paper than IRL.. 'BOLD400 is similar in structure to the popular Bodybuilding steroid Equipoise'. The truth is, Boldenone is structurally similar to testosterone, and is nothing like it - and IIRC it is simply an un-methylated Methandrostenolone but is of course nothing like that either! It is very weak indeed.
Something that is not only not converted to Boldenone in the body (these direct PH were all banned IIRC), but converts into a 'direct' PH once ingested (what survives the first pass), of which a small percentage is then supposed to convert into the androgen in question.. its all really bollocks - it isn't too far from homeopathy IMO.
However that said, it could be viewed in two ways.. for men, the effect of the recommended dose of these products is so insignificant, it isn't worth the money - when they are used in effective doses, side effects are very apparent and the cost is ridiculous! For women, the mild nature of these 'supplements' could be the advantage - however, they are highly unregulated and un-tested - and the millions of kids who use them are not capable for the most part of giving reliable subjective reports - meaning many get sides they were not expecting or know how to deal with.
I personally do not agree with the PH market one bit - it is irresponsible of the manufacturers to allow naive young trainees to use these hormonal supps. with no knowledge of what they do... PCT is often necessary as is some sort of prolactin control along with estrogen. This is not understood by the majority of doctors let alone some 18 year old 130lb child.
I digress.. the point of my post is to point out that if you want to use these dodgy supplements - that is fine, you own your body. But if you give them to your girl while neither you nor her understand what you are doing, is nothing short of immoral and is IMO abuse through irresponsibility of action.
At least advise he to educate herself so she can make the educated decision to use them, and tell her you have no idea what you are doing (suck up your ego) and not to rely on your advice alone.
This is the right thing to do..
Try these forums for better information specific to these products:
Depending on how she responds to her first doses I would recommend she splits them taking the second dose 10 to 12 hrs apart. I would do that for all weeks. She could also do:
Week 1: 1.5mg am then 1.5 mg 10 to 12 hrs later Week 2: 2.5mg am then 2.5mg 10 to 12 hrs later Week 3: same as week 2 Week 4: same as week 1 Week 5: Formex ( anti estrogene ) 1 pill am then 1pill 10 to 12 hrs later Week 6: Formex 1/2 pill am then 1/2 pill 10 to 12 hrs later
PCT I would add rHGH 4iu IM EOD from day 8 to day 16 of her menstrual cycle and 4iu IM ED from day 16 to the first day of her menstrual cycle. That means on her first period on week 3 she was on 5mg of Anavar and on her second period on week 7 she will her finished her last dose of rHGH 4iu IM, meaning she will just bleed, having remained on ketoses for week 5 and 6.
I would time it so that week 5 would coincide with day 14 of my menstrual cycle. I would add to PCT a fat burner with 5 HTP and vinpocetine. A very strict low carb diet for week 5 and 6.
She may not need any of this and may be able to just get away with tapering it down. Again this is what I am building up to do on my second experiment with Anavar. Whatever she chooses to do will depend on age, and menstruation.
The difficulty with females and any hormonal substance I would say is to respect that bitch which is estrogen rebound by knowing where your body and your emotions are during those three phases of your cycle so you time what you take in a way it yields a positive result.
My experience with birth control pill was a lot, a lot worse then the small dose cycle of Anavar experimentation I did.
Yes, I am happy to share my experience with her. He is her husband from what I understand so what happens to her body affects their relationship and he needs to back her up.
For example, I highly doubt she might get clitoral enlargement on a small dosage cycle, which if done intelligently will increase her strength tremendously and muscle hardness, BUT one side effect she might experience along with the high and intense libido is; her clitoris might become over sensitive. Is he willing to be understanding enough and make adjustments in their sexual expressions?
Is he going to reassure her if she puts on weight, water or fat, after the cycle ( Anavar is brilliant for putting weight on, no wonder it is given to some cancer patients losing weigh on chemo and AIDS patients ) and gets emotional and whiny and doesn't want to have sex because she feels 'fat'..she may not be like this but most women don't feel sexy when bloated and there goes their sex life for a few months...
Men tolerate water retention, bloat and even fat weight a lot better than women. He needs to understand that women can loose their self esteem when they feel their weight is increasing out of their control - and Anavar can do that easily. Never mind she will experience phenomenal strength and muscle hardness, the fact that she is also bloated and "fat" will make her depressed.
That is why more women don't do it. They can't value the strength enough to tolerate 4 to 6 weeks of possible "expansion". Looking skinny is still more valuable for a woman than being strong.
If a man comes out of a cycle and he doesn't look sexy the woman usually supports him, is he going to support her if she comes out of a cycle and doesn't look sexy?
I agree Alfa F you are awesome and not to mention the best person I could find to get advice for my wife.
Brook you seem to have lots of knowledge on the subject. You seem like a great guy to know me and you are going to have to have a few good conversations in the near future. I have no prob taking advice from someone with a build like u.
Itâ??s true she is my wife and i would never want to do anything to put in harms way. She asked me if there is anything she can take. I have done lots of research for myself over the last couple years but never thought she would want to do some sort of cycle as well. That why I am here asking questions for her sense she hardly has time to do the research herself.
I am out of time for the day so I hope to talk to you both tomorrow.
lol! I was actually quite humbled by my little experiment with Anavar. I appreciate men a lot more and do think that in reality, men are "The shit". I was left with a kind of awe by the capacity to handle power physically that men are built for. The female system is a lot more delicate and complex to recover from when it goes wrong. I would say men are physiologically built to act as an active force ( hence the power of the sperm swim against all the odds and penetrate to ensure fertilization ). And women are a physiologically built to act as a receptive force ( the the power of ovulation to hold on to the egg for so long to ensure a great chance of fertilization - even though I resent that two weeks of ovulation is too long! ).
I would add that the most interesting aspect of my little experimentation was not so much physiological but it was the psychological side. I felt zero, ZERO VULNERABILITY whilst on the Var, and by the third and last week I was so "tough" and "capable" I could have killed a small animal with no remorse, : D But then when I stopped taking it I felt like an Emo Kid for the best of 6 weeks.. : (
I also see the down side of this; men experiencing testosterone drops in their system and feeling powerless, ineffectual and deficient. Lacking both the courage and the power to do what he knows needs to be done by no one else but himself alone.
You are both welcome. I also have used Methoxy seven ( Before Se7en came out ) and Carbolin 19. They were both excellent over the counter supplements. I got a good pump and looked "fuller" and leaner, specially on the Carbolin 19 - that is one of my favorite Biotest supplements. However these will not even come near to what she will experience on Anavar and she would have to take the Se7en and Carbolin 19 continuously to see and sustain the effects and there would be no increase in strength ( except psychological ). Anavar is really for a woman who is serious about lifting and is mature enough to handle the impact and the intensity of this drug. She can also try what I am doing now:
HGH 4 iu in the manner I explained above, Alflutops 21 day ED IM injections, B6 10 days ED 2 ml vials of 100mg IM ED. When the B6 is finished I will do progesterone 25mg IM ED from day 14 of my cycle till my period breaks. I will use only spike caffeine free during my period week. I will do the above HGH with B12, then B5. I want to experiment with the energizing effects of the injectable vitamins and HGH. These are also recommended for anti-aging.
There are many things women can experiment with to enhance her experience at the gym. ( I am also looking into Ginko in injectable form but that is for later )
But if she is game to go with Anavar, then game on.
Formex was something I used myself and I was only speaking from personal experience of what I felt safe to use. Formex had a very mild effect on my cardiac rhythm. I took up to the full dosage recommended for men. I was more interested in using myself as a guinea pig, within limits, to see the impact of these "forbidden for women" substances. I was curious to see the difference in both the physiological and psychological impact of these substances for male and female. From research and previous training with an amateur British bodybuilder, I learnt what is mild and safe and what not to touch. I heard of a female who used only 0.5mg of Winstrol and got facial hair.
I used the Formex as an experimental measure to minimize the side effects of coming off Anavar instantly - since reaserch told me women just needed to stop if they didn't like the side effects. I found this not to be true in my case. The Formex only served as a milder substitute for the Anavar which in retrospect I should have tapered. Formex came into my system as a highly inferior substance for the steroid, but it tied me in nicely until my system calmed down enough for me to feel I was on the driving seat again. I began to experienced water retention and bloat even after the first dose wore out - 12hrs.
It depends on many factors. Her dosage, her diet before, and I mean at least 3 months before. Her vitamin and mineral efficiency or deficiency. And her capacity for intensity - cardiac muscle strength. Ok, at this point I feel I should share my experience since I can only speak from this place. I didn't take the Anavar for training purposes. I had four years of training under my belt and was squating 100 kg for 5 reps at my best. I am 5'7" and was 60kg at the time. Due to unforeseen circumstances I could not train for 1 and a half years. At the start of the 1/2 year mark I started smoking and developed a habit. I hated it but felt powerless to stop. That was when I decided to take the drastic measure of taking Anavar: I figured it would give me the will power to stop the passive habit of smoking. It indeed worked. I was also curious to see the efficacy of this drug in an untrained and non dieted, slim person; I had lost weight and muscle in that time. So I ran an experiment which lasted 3 weeks on like this: Week 1 starting on day 8 of my menstrual cycle ( last day of period ): 2.5mg last thing at night. Week 2: 2.5mg twice 10 hrs apart Week 3: 5mg twice 10 hrs apart
I put on 10 kg in three weeks. By week 2 muscle hardness and increased strength was evident even though I was not training and not dieting, under eating but not diet foods. Week three muscles were ROCK HARD, I felt extremely SOLID, increase in power, physical and psychological. I felt extremely confident and capable. Within 2o minutes of taking my first dose at night I experienced and increase in heart beat and blood pressure. I could feel the blood flow in my neck veins, then my whole body was a pulse. It took me two hours to fall asleep. I woke up as I fell asleep; switched ON. I did not feel energized I felt empowered. I experienced INTENSITY. The effect was mostly experienced in an increased and sustained heart beat. It felt very strong and constant. I experienced myself physically "stressed". The stress was indeed on my heart. I got used to this state of heightened power and even enjoyed it. But came week 3 at 10 mg a day I had stomach cramps and was so bloated I looked 4 months pregnant. Water retention was a fact. I learnt from experience 5 mg is my limit. Above that it creates unnecessary burden on the heart and that is where I think the whole system begins to "react" to compensate for the pressure. The main issue was stopping suddenly at the end of my ovulation. When my period broke it was heavy bleeding and blood clots for 7-8 days - I usually bleed little and for 3 days only. That was how I knew the endocrine system was out of balance. I put on weight fast but I also lose fast only this time the weight continued to increase. Coming off so quickly and with nothing to replace both the cigarette and the steroid my metabolism was completely sluggish. My adrenal glans were down ( I tested for this ), my heart was stressed, liver toxic and cholesterol high. I had severe joint pain on my left hand, where I had previously sustained a boxing injury. I had no motivation and my serotonin levels were low. I did not feel depressed because I knew I was physically depressed, not emotionally. Emotionally I felt flat and might as well not exist. I could not lose the weight in spite of fat burners and exercise which I had started at week 3. This is where I see the major "down" factor for women; If they do not dose properly and come out properly they will gain proper fat weight, the temporary increase in strength and hardness will not compensate for a perceived loss of physique the female has worked hard to achieve and the drop in metabolic rate and heart rate will not only make it impossible to lose the weight but it will increase it as she will eat more carbs and chocolate to compensate for the lack of power and motivation.
I have to think about this but I suspect it has more to do with the sudden drop in cardiac intensity and elevated blood pressure ( hence the water retention ) and the liver activity - a keto diet is important to ensure blood lipid count and insulin. I think the stress caused to the adrenal glans is what eventually deregulates the hormonal system. Also maybe because women are not used to experiencing such elevated levels of intensity and power, once off, estrogen is released in greater quantity as a soothing, downing an calming effect. But I could be completely wrong. It could also be both. This is why I think it is important to come out of your Anavar cycle at the start of the Luteal phase, when estrogen and progesterone are supposed to be naturally high.
I think if you are not aiming to add pounds of lean muscle it can be done. I bet you Gina Allioti with that hardness she achieved for competition, though small in size, was Anavar well cycled. From my experience untrained and undieted, I think with nutrition and training and HGH, small 2-3 week cycles of small doses peaking at 5mg, tapering and respecting your menstrual cycle you can come off very successful. If you are a woman with difficult periods or heavy bleeding I wouldn't even go there. If you freak out at 5lbs of water retention, don't even go there. If you can't control your blood sugar levels without causing insulin spikes from carbs post cycle, don't even touch Anavar.
Absolutely correct. Even with my extreme experiment I have regained control of my body after seven weeks. I have lost 3kg in one week; on week 7. It has been quicker than my previous experiences with birth control steroidal pills and the deproprovera injection. That alone took me 18 months to recover from.
Fomex is a OTC Aromase inhibitor. Im not very familiar with AI usage in women, but I do know that they are effective for estrogen management.
It would not be a replacement for the var as I do not believe it has an anabolic effect in women, (unless limiting estrogen in women has anabolic effects), it would simply limit the estrogen rebound or fluctuation associated with coming off the var suddenly.
AI's are only anabolic for men because they reduce the amount of testosterone converted into estrogen, simultaneously increasing testosterone and decreasing estrogen, the compound itself is not anabolic.
They may also stimulate testosterone production for other reasons in men as they have been shown to boost test levels even in men with normal estrogen rates, but Im not aware of the specifics there.
There should be no real problems associated with its usage in terms of masculinizing side effects and such as it is not an anabolic steroid.
Now this still seems very useful for women post cycle for limiting excessive estrogen rebound. Its just that you made it sound like a "weak steroid" which it should not be.
Im simply wondering why you choose Fomex over a more mainstream pharmaceutical and widely used AI.
I was aware it was an anti-e and not a steroid and I, too, wondered if it might have anabolic effects in healthy women. I chose it for the following reasons:
It was supposed to be a similar compound to Epistane which I was going to try. Epistane was originally made as an anti-e, so I heard, and it turned out more powerful. I read good reviews about it and it was super cheap from an certain website.
Formex was from the same company and it was supposed to be the PCT for Epistane. Formex also claimed to be mild-anabolic - it claimed a lot of things, actually so I thought it might be weak enough and it wouldn't harm me. Having just experienced something as strong as Anavar for the first time, I wasn't willing to play with more sophisticated compounds. I was actually going to take clenbuterol instead of the anti-e, since a few people suggested it as a PCT for Anavar for women. Formex claimed it could be taken all year around, no need to cycle. I assumed that that meant it was weak enough. I reasoned from my research that since AI lower estrogen it could act as an anabolic for women in the sense that lower estrogen means higher progesterone, in theory. Progesterone is said to be the power hormone for women. That is why my next experiment will be 25mg injections of natural progesterone IM for 14 days at the luteal phase, when progesterone and estrogen are equally high.
Formex is 4-hydroxy-androstenedione. I read this during my research:
"Prohormone supplementation may result in greater increases in testosterone (or nortestosterone) in women because their baseline level of androgens is much lower than that of malesâ?? and they exhibit preferential conversion of androstenedione to testosterone".
Also the fact formestane ( 4-hydroxy-androstenedione ) was said to have poor oral bio-availability in a study for post menopausal women with breast cancer. I am not post menopausal and I do not have cancer so given that some men also preferred Arimidex, I thought formastene would be effective enough and mild enough for a healthy woman under normal circumstances.
I didn't meant to sound it was in the same category. My meaning was even though it seemed to have a similar cardiovascular effect, it paled in comparison with the effect on the heart I had from the anabolic steroid. In a cardiovascular sense it registered in my system as an inferior substance. It was a subjective observation rather than an objective one, I apologize for the confusion.
This thread - or how it has turned has to be one of the more interesting ones i have read in a very long time.
Your input is invaluable AF, and i do hope you stick around.
I think what WC meant was this: In men, the mechanism of action that regulates androgen levels is the HPTA. The HPTA (Hypothalamus-Pituitary Testicular axis) is simply 2 areas of the brain and the balls, where chemicals are secreted to eventually signal secretion of Testosterone from cells on the Testes. Estrogen in men is predominantly converted directly from Testosterone, through it's attachment to the Aromatase Enzyme.
So this being the case for men, how do women produce Testosterone and Estrogen?
I am aware that Estrogen is produced in a number of tissues, including the ovaries, but which areas of the brain signal this? I would assume the same areas as men (Hypothalamus and Pituitary) have a role. Also, how is Testosterone produced in the female body?
I may look this shit up anyway, as understanding this coupled with the knowledge of actions of external androgens will help me/us to understand how AAS affect womens physiology.
Maybe BR can help as i am confident he knows the answer to this.. :~)