How harsh are the newer 'prohormones' such as Havoc and Methyl Masterdrol on the liver? Are they harsher than having a couple shots of liquor everyday?
I know this isnt going to answer your question, but your not going to find much love for prohormones from many of us here.
The question you ask strikes me as very odd as well. Your asking if a prohormone is any worse for you that if you are an alcoholic. Not something that any of us in their right mind would like to achieve.
If you truly think you are ready for prohormones then instead choose a test based cycle of real steroids instead. You will get better overall results with less and more predictable sides.
I have no access to AAS. I have used prohormones successfully before with no noticable side effects other than very significant increase in aggression. I realize most of you are opposed to the inferior prohormones, but I would still enjoy an answer to my question if possible. I'd just like to know how they affect the liver since I see a lot of people making a big deal about it.
I used alcohol as comparison because people make a big deal out of it's adversities on the liver as well, but in all actuality it's damage potential is insignifigant unless used heavily for long periods.
Anything methylated is going to be hard on the liver.
To answer your question as to how hard, I don't know.
Put it this way, I know people who have abused pro-hormones or even taken insane amounts of dbol, winnie, and other orals for long periods of time. They turned out fine and their docs tell them that their liver turned out fine.
Some people may do one cycle of prohormones properly and their liver goes to shit.
I don't know exaclty how to convey my point except to just say --use at your own risk.
I must say I have NO experience, just research.
I feel that if somebody where to go in for bloodwork, checkups, etc and treat a prohormone as they would an oral steroid then they CAN be fine. *emphasis on CAN because you never know with messing with your body's endocrine system, especially with drugs that have little research on them.
Hope that helped.
My liver was stressed when I took SD. I bounced back upon discontinuation. I recommend like Gerdy said to get blood work done pre and post cycle. Also wtf? drinking while taking a methylated oral? now why would you go and say something like that?
I never said that, but now that you mention it I do have a few beers here and there, maybe six a week. Is this a bad idea or is that amount of alcohol nothing to worry about? I did the same through all of my other cycles and haven't noticed any problems. What are some symptoms of a stressed liver?
Yellowing of the skin, yellowing of the whites of the eyes, jaundice...pains in the liver. I'm sure there are a few others but these are the signs that would tell you to go to the doc.
6 beers a week imo is bad for weightlifting/bodybuilding in general, it would especially be bad while on something methylated.
Again thats my opinion, some still choose to drink while on cycle or when they are on a weightlifting program. Not saying it's completel bad I may drink every now and then but for the most part I avoid it. Alchol is anti-bodybuilding in everything that it does and that's my reason.
I didn't experience any visual signs but my blood work showed elevated values that made my doctor worry. I'm with Gerdy, if you're serious enough about bodybuilding that you're taking a designer steriod there's simply no room for beer.
I've tried both those products. Methyl M didn't seem overly taxing on my body. Havoc was a little more, but I ran 40mg/day instead of the recommended dose of 30mg/day. I tried 50mg/day for a few weeks and felt like ass in a wet blanket so I dropped back to 40/day. I saw slightly more gains than running 30mg/day, but overall wasn't worth the extra. I'd just run it like they recommend; take 3 capsules (10mg each) spaced out throughout the day. If you decide to try those, make sure you watch for the warning signs the guys mentioned here and drink plenty of water!
Edit: And absolutely drop the beer! The liver doesn't need to go through all that while being saturated with alcohol.
Yes they are harsh on the liver, but if you don't have access to proper AAS, then I think you'll need to look at additional liver support if you choose to use something like Epistane/Havoc.
Just note that for all intents and purposes, this particular product IS A STEROID. Be prepared to fork out for a proper PCT or at least have a SERM on hand should the need arise.
Makavali is absolutely right in that! I tried Epistane/Havoc last year several times. They absolutely work, even at the recommended dosages of 30mg/day. But do not think you are ok with using over-the-counter anti-estrogen/PCT supplements like Novedex XT or 6-OXO.
They are crap in my opinion. Tribulus is ok to get a jump start on the test production, but don't rely on that to get you back to normal test levels. I think companies that create potent over the counter pro-hormones should also be held accountable in producing potent Anti-E's.
The problem is that the good ones are either illegal or prescription only. I assume you mean an AI?
Yep, AI's. And you are right. Illegal to possess without a prescription.
Ha ha, just noticed you wrote Nolvadex XT. A common marketing trick. The product is actually Novedex XT if I'm not mistaken. Real Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) is actually a very effective SERM.
Irresponsible product naming right there. Just like the companies who market products that sound vaguely like "proper" AAS.
Winni-V anyone? Lawlz.
They've brainwashed me! First I misspell it... next thing you know I'll be using it during a cycle.
Thanks for noticing that. I corrected it in the posting above. But surely you joke in putting me in the same category as a company purposefully misleading people into buying their product. Say it ain't so Mak... say it ain't so...
Wow, I'm sorry, I didn't mean you. I was bitching about the companies - not you! Sorry if it came across that way!
No no... you were absolutely right. I did misspell it and I don't want to lead anyone in the wrong direction. Definitely a "Doh" moment for me. Thanks for pointing it out.
Well... as long as I'm correcting you... the correct spelling is actually "D'oh!". That said... it's actually written "annoyed grunt" on the script.
Methyl Masterdrol absolutely destroyed my lipid profile. My Doctor nearly freaked when he saw it and said we've got to do testing blah blah blah then I told him what I had been taking and he said stop immediately. Blood pressure was sky high approx 6 months after taking it but has finally since resided. And Now Lipids have returned to normal.
bump so there won't be so many ph threads popping up...oh wait.