T Nation

Prohormones and Oral AAS in Same Cycle?


#1

Im not proposing any cycles or anything - no need for questioning why dodge injectables, etc.

Just curious as to if this has been a route explored - seems it would carry more bang for the buck given how cheap dianabol is.

An example being stacking a class 2 such as dianabol with an unmethylated class 1 such as bold.

Or a more expensive route:

Class 1 eg. anavar with unmethylated class 2 PH?

Just pondering.

EDIT: AI's and the usual ancillaries run alongside of course.


#2

I can appreciate that to a given person this could be an interesting question.

But my problem with it and reason for having had no interest in determining any answer to this with any trials of any sort, is that if a person can acquire pharmaceutical anabolic steroids in the first place, then why on Earth should he mix second-choice (to say the least) “prohormones” with it? Why not complete the stack with further pharmaceutical anabolic steroids.

That to me is the correct answer to the problem, not, which “prohormone” would be the best among those choices to complete the stack.

So therefore I have never determined the answer to the latter question, and from the practical viewpoint, would recommend that anyone who can get and is going to use pharmaceutical steroids (by which I mean, ones developed for pharmaceutical use, whether the current source is pharmaceutical or not) then do the whole thing that way.

And, I am consistent with this. For example, I consider MAG-10 a better product than any of the “prohormones” available today. But for a single person saying he was going to use a given pharmaceutical steroid, did I ever advise that he should round or fill it out by adding MAG-10 to it? No, if let’s say he was wanting to take 50 mg/dey Dianabol and wondered what to add to it, I always recommended a pharmaceutical anabolic steroid.

The same principle holds even more true with the limited (meaning, everything available as of 2004 being banned) choices available now for supposedly legal products.


#3

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I can appreciate that to a given person this could be an interesting question.

But my problem with it and reason for having had no interest in determining any answer to this with any trials of any sort, is that if a person can acquire pharmaceutical anabolic steroids in the first place, then why on Earth should he mix second-choice (to say the least) “prohormones” with it? Why not complete the stack with further pharmaceutical anabolic steroids.

That to me is the correct answer to the problem, not, which “prohormone” would be the best among those choices to complete the stack.

So therefore I have never determined the answer to the latter question, and from the practical viewpoint, would recommend that anyone who can get and is going to use pharmaceutical steroids (by which I mean, ones developed for pharmaceutical use, whether the current source is pharmaceutical or not) then do the whole thing that way.[/quote]

This pretty much goes back to why some people don’t enjoy the concept of injecting I guess (simply being pussies/not in a suitable enviroment to keep needles/whatever)… and why they may prefer oral.

Perhaps vials are harder to disguise then pills? shrugs

Also PH’s as a whole have a reputation of being relatively unknown territory, expensive and heavily laden with sides. reducing the number of PH’s used can only be a good thing in this respect if the general guidelines are followed (class 1, class 2 synergy… avoiding multiple methlys, etc.).

I would rather not turn this thread into a debate as to why but whether or not it would prove effective. I do however appreciate your input (even viewing the thread!) Bill Roberts.

I’ve heard of people using 2 on/2 off with dbol before…

Weeks 1-8 Bold 200 @ 800mg ED
Weeks 1-2 and 5-6 dbol at ???mg ED

I don’t know.

If nobody wants to comment on this fair play - I guess it will have to be a question left unanswered for me.

EDIT: I noticed you edited as I was posting Bill. Thank you again for your input.


#4

I think i am missing something in regards to -

[quote]"…This pretty much goes back to why some people don’t enjoy the concept of injecting I guess (simply being pussies/not in a suitable enviroment to keep needles/whatever)… and why they may prefer oral…"

“…Perhaps vials are harder to disguise then pills…?”[/quote]

This doesnt seem to have any relevance to the original post or Bill’s reply… like i saidf, i feel as though i missed the point.

Anyway, to give my input - i agree with BR. Why would one use a PH if one has access to ‘real’ steroids? They are more tested for the most part and much much more effective.

I understand why one might just use PH’s and stack them for better results (as one would different AAS classes) but why would one choose to use a PH if one had AAS?

You mentioned injection issues/logistics… but your first post only mentioned oral AAS. I would use Dbol/Var or Drol/Winstrol, etc. over any AAS/PH stcak anyday.

Your cycle example:

[quote]Weeks 1-8 Bold 200 @ 800mg ED
Weeks 1-2 and 5-6 dbol at ???mg ED [/quote]

(assuming Bold200 is a PH and not actually Equipoise - i am not experienced in PH and have little interest FYI)
Why would one choose to use a 2on/2off protocol with dbol, when a PH is being ran for a full 8 weeks? A PH that may well suppress the HPTA by itself? It defeats the purpose of the 2on/2off protocol - which is little to no suppression of the Hypothalamus, illiciting improved recovery and regular, frequent cycles over a long period of use (say a year leading upto an event).
If both were used in a 2on/2off fashion it would make more sense - except we are back at the same; “Why not just use the massively more effective AAS’s instead?!”

Lastly you seem to have a good grasp of the reality of PH’s - yet are still trying to use them in some way:

Why wouldn’t one simply NOT use a PH and replace it with a more effective steroid (Dbol) or one that was safer and more anabolic(Primo/Var)?

JMO


#5

[quote] Brook wrote:
I think i am missing something in regards to -

“…This pretty much goes back to why some people don’t enjoy the concept of injecting I guess (simply being pussies/not in a suitable enviroment to keep needles/whatever)… and why they may prefer oral…”

“…Perhaps vials are harder to disguise then pills…?”

This doesnt seem to have any relevance to the original post or Bill’s reply… like i saidf, i feel as though i missed the point.

Anyway, to give my input - i agree with BR. Why would one use a PH if one has access to ‘real’ steroids? They are more tested for the most part and much much more effective.

I understand why one might just use PH’s and stack them for better results (as one would different AAS classes) but why would one choose to use a PH if one had AAS?

You mentioned injection issues/logistics… but your first post only mentioned oral AAS. I would use Dbol/Var or Drol/Winstrol, etc. over any AAS/PH stcak anyday.

Your cycle example:

Weeks 1-8 Bold 200 @ 800mg ED
Weeks 1-2 and 5-6 dbol at ???mg ED

(assuming Bold200 is a PH and not actually Equipoise - i am not experienced in PH and have little interest FYI)
Why would one choose to use a 2on/2off protocol with dbol, when a PH is being ran for a full 8 weeks? A PH that may well suppress the HPTA by itself? It defeats the purpose of the 2on/2off protocol - which is little to no suppression of the Hypothalamus, illiciting improved recovery and regular, frequent cycles over a long period of use (say a year leading upto an event).
If both were used in a 2on/2off fashion it would make more sense - except we are back at the same; “Why not just use the massively more effective AAS’s instead?!”

Lastly you seem to have a good grasp of the reality of PH’s - yet are still trying to use them in some way:
Also PH’s as a whole have a reputation of being relatively unknown territory, expensive and heavily laden with sides. reducing the number of PH’s used can only be a good thing in this respect if the general guidelines are followed (class 1, class 2 synergy… avoiding multiple methlys, etc.)
Why wouldn’t one simply NOT use a PH and replace it with a more effective steroid (Dbol) or one that was safer and more anabolic(Primo/Var)?

JMO[/quote]

I guess a straight 6 weeks of 800mg bold and a low dose dbol ED would make more sense in that case.

Also sorry I guess I wasn’t being so clear - not all of what I was saying was specific to Bills reply - some was to the world in general. I need to clear up my posting format a little methinks.

Anavar - a class 1 is exceptionally expensive over here - one source I was looking at was priced at £90 for 100, 10mg tabs. Primo isnt available from this source either.

Generally though what got me curious was the low price of dbol and the concept of a class 1/class 2 synergy - whilst running only one methylated.


#6

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Im not proposing any cycles or anything - no need for questioning why dodge injectables, etc.

Just curious as to if this has been a route explored - seems it would carry more bang for the buck given how cheap dianabol is.

An example being stacking a class 2 such as dianabol with an unmethylated class 1 such as bold.

Or a more expensive route:

Class 1 eg. anavar with unmethylated class 2 PH?

Just pondering.

EDIT: AI’s and the usual ancillaries run alongside of course.[/quote]

Your logic is correct that the bold PH, which actually converts to boldenone and dbol would mix I and II.

Dose HIGH enough, that would actually be chemically equal to a cycle of real boldenone and dbol.

But why would you want to spend that much money on bold PH’s when you could just buy real boldenone.

The only answer I can see, is what you mentioned about injecting. Some people just dont want to, I think thats stupid, but hypothetically we shall run with it.

If you dont want to inject, there are oral steroids that can be effectively stacked with dbol.

Your focusing too much on the type I versus type II thing.

And forgetting about the whole prohormones are baby steroids thing.

Simply using more of a significantly stronger drug will easily overshadow any benefit of mixing it with a weaker drug at lower doses.

In other words instead of taking a Bold PH and 20mg of dbol.

You should just take 50mg of dbol, it would be more effective.

Or say Tbol by itself.

Or various stacks, say, drol and winny, oral only cycles can be successful and there is alot of information on them.