T Nation

ProHormones-All You Need to Know


#1


DISCLAIMER: I don't personally recommend pro-hormone(PH) use. But it is clear to me that a lot of people don't have access to proper AAS and will turn to pro-hormones. Hopefully this will help them use these drugs in a safe and effective manner.

The usual stuff:

  • You should be at least 21. No sense messing up your endocrine system, seeing as for all intents and purposes, PH's are steroids.
  • You should have training and nutrition under your belt. Like AAS, these compounds are NOT a magic pill.

Just popping a few capsules a day won't net any magic results, but training hard, eating right and popping these pills can help you gain a few more pounds than you normally might.
- If you have access to AAS, use the AAS. Better gains, less (negative) sides.

I'm a 19 year old guy who cant put on weight...

Stop. Notice your age. In mathematical terms it looks like this:
19 < 21 = NO PH's
Eat more. Sleep More. You will be able to gain weight. But pro-hormones may dramatically affect your body's ability to produce and utilize testosterone in the future. Pro-hormones will act in a manner not unlike AAS, and will produce the same negative sides (with a few bonus negative sides thrown in for fun).

What is a PH?

A pro-hormone is a substance that is a precursor to a hormone, usually having minimal hormonal effect by itself. The term has been used in medical science since the middle of the 20th century. Examples of natural, human pro-hormones include pro-insulin and pro-opiomelanocortin.

How does this help me, the bodybuilder?

Well, when Anabolic Steroids were made illegal, many supplement companies made the move to circumvent this by creating precursors to a common steroids (like good old Testosterone). Even Biotest did this, and released the product known as MAG-10:

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/special_reports/look_out_baby_mag10s_here_3&cr=

Sweet! Where do I get this stuff?

Here's the thing... you can't. Not the good stuff anyway. In 2004, Premier Warlord George W. Bush signed the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 which made AAS and pro-hormones illegal. Unfortunately, a lot of the world has this idea that the FDA knows what they're doing... so a lot of other countries have banned them too.

What?! Then why the hell did you made this thread you bastard?

Well here's the thing: the ban only lists specific pro-hormones. Supplement companies are trying to keep one step ahead by creating different pro-hormones and of course - designer steroids. These are usually methylated steroids that have flown under the radar.

Some examples are:

  • Epistane (also known as Havoc)
  • Superdrol/Masterdrol
  • Help me out guys, list some more!

This sounds too good to be true... whats the catch?

There's a few:

  1. A lot of these aren't likely to be legal for too long.
  2. Pro-hormones haven't been tested as well as regular steroids. Simply put, we know about most (if not all) the side effects of AAS. We don't know much about pro-hormones.
  3. They are almost ALWAYS methylated steroids (like Epistane) which will be hard on the liver.
  4. Gains are actually better with AAS.

Then wouldn't AAS be a better option?

Yes. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to a supplier and for them, pro-hormones may well be the only choice.

Will I still need a PCT? And what is a PCT?

Post Cycle Therapy. A necessary part of hormone manipulation, which allows your body to return to its normal levels. Any large amount of exogenous testosterone will result in some form of shutdown, and you need to get your balls back in action! Most people will recommend Nolvadex run at 40/40/20 or something similar. Each case is different, and it's up to you to do the research.

Most people will recommend Tamoxifen as part of your PCT, but it will vary from product to product. The usual PCT will consist of:

Week 1: 40mg Tamoxifen ED
Week 2: 40mg Tamoxifen ED
Week 3: 20mg Tamoxifen ED

Plus assorted cycle support products, such as Himalaya's Liv 52.

So is it cool to stack Superdrol, Pheraplex and Trenadrol as my first stack?

No with a side of possibly. Generally its better to try running a non methylated pro-hormones first, and then step up to the methylated compounds second, due to the fact they're harder on the body/liver than the non methyl's. "Bridging" methyl's (running one into the other) is in a quick phrase, somewhat nuts.

It's an all out assault that's usually attempted by someone with some decent pro-hormone experience under his belt. Most people will tell you NOT to run two methyl's at one time, as it is a great way to kill off your liver.

If I take more of these than recommended will I have a heart attack?

Probably not, however as pro-hormones are relatively untested, it is suggested people start small and work up to a level that they feel comfortable with.

You could take twice the dosage, in theory but depending on the product that might just land you in the hospital. The effects WILL NOT double if you double the dose, you reach a point of diminishing returns where your body literally cannot process the amount of material you've ingested.

Most likely your sides will double, meaning you'll earn a neato nickname like "Pizza Face" or "The Pillsbury Dough Boy" from increased skin oil or water retention respectively. For a first time out you should read the back of the bottle and stick to those parameters.

It is generally recommended to take the capsules will some sort of fat. One option is to down Fish Oil capsules (or Flameout) with each dose.

Will this show up in a drug test?

Yes and no. If you're being tested for anabolic steroids, then yes, they will show up. If you're being drug tested for a job odds are they're looking for narcotics, hallucinogens, and most importantly weed.

How much/What do I have to eat?

Everyone is different. There's a section called 'Supplements & Nutrition'. Post there. More importantly, what are you doing this cycle for? Are you cutting or bulking? That all factors into diet requirements.

I'm going to go out partying with my friends and knock back a few. Is it cool to drink on these?

HELL NO. If you're running a methylated cycle you liver is already taking a pretty beating, adding alcohol to that mix is NOT a good way to go. Not to mention the fact that alcohol basically stops protein synthesis entirely, which negates even taking the pro-hormones (or AAS) in the first place.

While non-methyl cycles are easier on the liver drinking alcohol is a great way to stuff up your diet and reduce your gains.

So I finished my cycle, can I start one tomorrow?

No.

Minimum time frame between cycles: Cycle + PCT + "Normalization Period" = Ready for your next cycle. What the hell is a normalization period? It's however long your body needs to get back to where it was hormonally before you overloaded it with pro-hormones on cycle and then with anti-estrogen's in PCT.

Your body will also use this period of time to do a little house cleaning on your cell receptors in your body making the next cycle as effective as the last one. The normal time will be at least the length of your PCT.


Pro-hormone "Traits"

The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen conversion through aromatase.

WET:
- M1,4ADD
- Pheraplex
- M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)
- *Superdrol

DRY:
- Bold (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning)
- Epistane (AKA Havoc)
- Tren
- *Superdrol
- Halodrol
- Winztrol (banned?)
- Furazadrol
- Prop

STRENGTH:
- Tren (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
- Superdrol
- M1T(and legal clones)
- Pheraplex and clones (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
- M14ADD

Pro-hormone Classification

Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.

Cliff's notes of the above statement:

Class I = binds to androgen receptor
Class II = does not

These pro-hormone classifications are based on their steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE post so below. If that goes unnoticed, PM me.

Class I

Boldenone based - 1,4AD & Bold
Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Dienolone based - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based - Epistane & Clones (like Havoc & so on so forth)
Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - Pheraplex & clones
Testosterone
DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

Class II

Masteron (Dromostanolone) based - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
Winstrol (stanozolol) based - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based - Furazadrol etc
Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
Clostebol based - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
4-AD

Not Pro-hormones...

AMS's (Advanced Muscle Science) products - test boosters
Testabolan is not a prohormone, it is an ecdysterone, tribulus, oglio peptide product.
Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor

I would like to add that Mass Tabs is a prosteroid - 2a, 17a-dimethyl 17b-hydroxy 5a-androstan-1-ene-3-one however since its close to about 3-4 steroids/other prohormone compounds out there, I can't classify it. I would guess its a class II though.

Stacking

If you plan on stacking two pro-hormones at the same time, the best combination are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on...

Here's why:
When you take a class I/class I stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in line wait for a spot to open up.

However, with a class I/class II combination while one pro-hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth.


Now this post is far from complete. This is where that whole audience participation thing comes in. Chime in peeps!


About the Pharma category
What Topics Do We Want to Make Available?
#2

I have alot of knowledge in the PH field.

Superdrol and Masterdrol is the same thing and It's not a PH. Its a designer steroid and It's active in it's current form. Same goes for Havoc AkA Epistane. I'm going to do a copy and paste job for the rest!

What a novel concept!

I'm personally growing tired of reading: this is my first post I'm going to run superdrol with phera for 10 weeks straight and then bridge it into injecting gasoline and tonic water. So I figured I would write a newbie FAQ. Please add to this, or hell sticky it if you should so desire.

Since someone else posted part, I figured I would post the entire thing.

Pro Hormone FAQ.
Please read before posting.

Statement 1: Hey guys! I'm a 19 year old guy who cant put on weight....
Stop. Notice your age. In mathematical terms it looks like this:
19 < 21 = no ph's
Eat more. Sleep More. You will be able to gain weight. But phs may dramatically affect your body's ability to produce and utilize testosterone in the future.

Statement 2: So is it cool to stack superdrol, pheraplex and trenadrol as my first stack?
Ok that was actually more of a question, but the answer is still no with a side of possibly. Generally its better to try running a non methylated prohormones (which you can ask about which are available at the time on the forum) first, and then step up to the methylated compounds second, due to the fact they're harder on the body/liver than the non methyls. "Bridging" methyls (running one into the other) is in a quick phrase, somewhat nuts. Its an all out assault thats usually attempted by someone with some decent ph experience under his belt. In my opinion you shouldn't run two methyls at one time, its a great way to kill off your liver.

Statement 3: How do I know whats a prohormone and whats a testosterone booster?
Heres his ph list.

Statement 4: If I take more of these than recommended will I have a heart attack?
Probably not, however I always suggest people start small and work up to a level that they feel comfortable with. You've got your whole life to push a little harder.

Statement 5: Whats PCT?
Its a necessary part of hormone manipulation, allowing your body to return to its normal levels. While your eyes are going to glaze over, its a good read. The pct section is a great place to get ideas on what might work for you as well as ask questions. Notice how no where in this statement do I recommend that SERM use is mandatory in PCT....

Statement 6: Will this show up in a drug test?
Yes and no. If you're being tested for anabolic steroids, then yes, they will show up. If you're being drug tested for a job odds are they're looking for narcotics, hallucinogens, and most importantly weed.

Statement 7: How much/What do I have to eat?
Everyone is different. Theres a section called diet. Post there.

Statement 8: I'm going to go out partying with my friends and knock back a few. Is it cool to drink on these?
No. If you're running a methylated cycle you liver is already taking a pretty good stress load from breaking that down, adding alcohol (and this is talking form personal experience) will make you liver swell, and its REALLY uncomfortable, as well as EXTREMELY bad for you. Not to mention the fact that alcohol basically stops protein synthesis entirely, which negates even taking the ph's in the first place. Non methyl cycles are easier on the liver, but again, whats the point of taking them if you wanna go party? Hell in my own ph use I wont even take Tylenol on cycle cause I'm so paranoid now.

Statement 9: So I finished my cycle, can I start one tomorrow?
No, minimum time frame between cycles: Cycle + Pct + "Normalization Period" = Ready for your next cycle. Voo, what the hell is a normalization period? I call it that cause your body needs to get back to where it was hormonally before you overloaded it with pro hormones on cycle and then with anti estrogens in pct. Your body will also use this period of time to do a little house cleaning on your cell receptors in your body making the next cycle as effective as the last one. I like see the "NP" at least as long in length as pct. Usually I wait about a month. So my personal normal setup would look something like this: 6 week cycle + 4 week pct + 4-6 week normalization period.

Statement 10: I'm looking for a lot of growth in a short amount of time, can I take twice the dosage and feel twice the effects?
Two part answer. You could take twice the dosage, in theory but depending on the product that might just land you in the hospital. The effects WILL NOT double if you double the dose, you reach a point of diminishing returns where your body literally cannot process the amount of material you've ingested. Most likely your sides will double, meaning you'll earn a neato nickname like "pizza face" or "michellin man" from increased skin oil or water retention respectively. For a first time out I always recommend reading the back of the bottle and sticking to those parameters. oh, and always take them with food, the absorb better, and you won't get the dry, dusty, terrible tasting ph burps...

Prohormone "Traits"

The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen through aromatase.

Wikipedia: Aromatase is an enzyme of the cytochrome P450 superfamily (EC 1.14.14.1), whose function is to aromatize androgens (that is, to selectively increase their aromaticity), producing estrogens. As such, it is an important factor in sexual development.

Effectively: Aromatase is when excess testosterone converts to estrogen.

WET:
M1,4ADD
Phera
M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)
*Superdrol

DRY:
Bold (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
Epithios (Havoc)
Tren
*Superdrol
Halodrol
Winztrol
Furazadrol
Prop

STRENGTH:
Tren (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
Superdrol
M1T(and legal clones)
Phera-Plex and clones (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
M14ADD

On the strength category there are probably more, but from what I hear those are the biggies.

Prohormone Classification

Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.

Simply put:
Class I = binds to androgen receptor
Class II = does not.

These prohormones classifications are based on their steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE message me.

Class I
Boldenone based phs - 1,4AD & Bold
Progestin based phs - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Dienolone based phs - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based phs - Epithio & Clones (Havoc/Epistane/so on so forth)
Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - pheraplex & clones
Testosterone
DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

Class II
Masteron (Dromostanolone) based phs - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based phs - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based phs - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
Winstrol (stanozolol) based phs - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based phs - Furazadrol etc
Progesterone based phs - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
Clostebol based phs - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
4-AD

Not Prohormones...
AMS's products - test boosters
Testabolan is not a prohormone, it is an ecdysterone, tribulus, oglio peptide product.
Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor

I would like to add that Mass Tabs is a prosteroid - 2a, 17a-dimethyl 17b-hydroxy 5a-androstan-1-ene-3-one however since its close to about 3-4 steroids/other prohormone compounds out there, I cant classify it. I would guess its a class 2 though.

If you plan on stacking two prohormones at the same time, the best combinations are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on..

Here's why, effectively when you take a class 1/class 1 stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in wait for a spot to open up.

However, with a class 1/class 2 combination while one pro hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth.


#3

Zing!

I was kinda hoping that this would be a longer discussion...


#4

I wouldnt bother fucking with PH though, done havoc in the past..It was great actually, used it to kick off my first real AAS cycle. I do have quite a few unopened bottles of other stuff I was going to use until it all really sunk in..If a problem arises how am I going to know how to fix it because nobody actually really knows what the fuck it does once its in your body..I wouldn't trust PH or designer steroids anymore...


#5

For the most part, neither would I. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't have access to AAS, and we may as well help hem do PH safely. After all, it's why we're here.

I on the other hand, will be starting a Test + Anavar or Test + Winstrol cycle at the end of next year provided I hit 200lbs by then.

Ftw!


#6

I really can't believe the DEA wants to ban bold but leave superdrol on the market..That makes no fucking sense...Read about the proposal here:
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2008/fr0425.htm


#7

The only few I would take again (permitting couldn't get AAS)

Haladrol 50 or clones 75mg tops per day, have seen people run it at 100mg per day. Even though it being a methyl I was taking Liv52 and my liver enzymes were all within normal range.

Havoc methylated 30-40mg tops per day

Bold 200 (EQ PH) Non Methyl- Needs about 800mg per day to see great results

Furazadrol AKA Orastan A (200mg = 50mg of winnie) Non methyl

P.S good luck with your cycle, Im about to order my gear this week for my second cycle...


#8

I might be silly, but this could probably be stickied. This is probably the most comprehensive thread on prohormones I've seen, which is good because questions keep popping up.

Keep the info coming guys

I don't know shit other than the detection time for 1-AD (2005 formula) is less than 2 weeks and more than 4 days (a few guys I know did a little trial and error). So I imagine, if the new 1-AD lives up to what Ergopharms claims it does, it will probably be similar.


#9

New 1-AD Supposed to be 75% as effective as original...Wait until it is sold in retailers, Patrick is trying to make money by only selling the first run off his site...


#10

I agree with the sticky.

I'd like to add that many products now being sold at GNC and other "non-hormonal" outlets are actually very strong PH's or DS's that will cause shutdown.. I found two superdrol clones at GNC.

I find it disgusting, I wish there was a list of all the SD/PP clones so that kids would know the difference.. I mean, not that SD and PP are horrible for everyone, but when you're a HS football player and you see the new "Methyl 1-P XL" from LG Sciences at GNC.. you don't think it's going to hurt you..


#11

Mods sticky please....!


#12

Yeah, I'm not so thrilled about all the PH thread we used to have, and I'm sure they'll pop up again. So I made this thread as a preemptive strike :slightly_smiling:

The thing to take away from this however, is that proper AAS like Test will always net better gains and less sides.


#13

If its the New masterdrol from LG..Its not superdrol..Neither is liquid masterdrol..Neither is superdrol NG..Anabolic Xtremes recent flop product. I can assure you whatever legal gear is selling at GNC is more than likely DHEA with an ester attached to it..


#14

You could be right, all I remember is whatever it was had "17a methyl etiocholan" on the label. Might not have been by LG.. but LG had some dangerous looking stuff at GNC.

Either way, GNC had something methylated on the shelves that said etiocholan in the chemical name..


#15

This is a blatant attempt at a sticky! I could see that from the out.

However, there is nothing wrong with that, many of the stickies are...

But just to play Devils advocate, do we need to cover PH use here? Do we specialize in PH use? There are better forums that cover that in much more detail - but cant hold a light to our AAS shit.

Just a thought, nothing personal Makkie.


#16

This is a very well written thread though Mak, very funny indeed!


#17

I dunno, a lot of PH questions are in this forum. I've tried to word things so people will realize that AAS would be safer/more effective. I need to go thru what's already been posted, but I want some info on what PH's are out there, sides and potential gains.

This way I can show people that while pro-hormones work, they don't hold a candle to AAS.


#18

Does anyone here have any experience with MAG-10?

I ask because I've got about six bottles of it in the freezer (stocked up before they were made illegal) that I'm about ready to thaw and use, and I'm curious what kind of results anyone else has gotten from it.


#19

True - what the fuck is going on with the posts?

With the quotes being the same as the other writing. Its annoying as fuck.


#20

The

is fixed now (for me anyway).