T Nation

Prohormone for Women


#1

My gf wants to run a ph for a 3 week cycle. She is 5'5,150 20 years old and been into training since her sophomore year in H.S. so 4 years total, one learnin 1 structuring and the last two of good training

what should she be taking?

All the ph I've looked at say NO WOMEN, so whats the deal?

and along with the ph, can u give me an example of how to give her the cycle?


#2

bad idea, diet and rest is the key.


#3

There are very few PH’s suitable for women.

The only one that might be usable is the boldenone PH’s.

They are called bold 200 or something. There is also a winny PH, but winstrol is a somewhat poor choice for some women.

Its a very poor idea to mess with this sort of thing unless shes a figure competitor. Recreation usage is risky for women.

There are no “safe” steroids for women, even var and primo and others that we consider safe at a certain dose can have virilization effects in some women and not in others.

Depending on how they react to it a tiny dose even by female standards could cause big problems.


#4

[quote]Westclock wrote:
There are very few PH’s suitable for women.

The only one that might be usable is the boldenone PH’s.

They are called bold 200 or something. There is also a winny PH, but winstrol is a somewhat poor choice for some women.

Its a very poor idea to mess with this sort of thing unless shes a figure competitor. Recreation usage is risky for women.

There are no “safe” steroids for women, even var and primo and others that we consider safe at a certain dose can have virilization effects in some women and not in others.

Depending on how they react to it a tiny dose even by female standards could cause big problems.[/quote]

I’ve tried to explain this to her. She’s Hellbent on using though. I just want to guide her as best I can. There’s no stopping this crazy girl. That’s where I need help. Understood that nothing is “safe” what would be the best way to go? I’m thinking of giving her placebo and finding a strong supp to try on her. How’s that?

and yea, she has aspirations of figure then bodybuilding…its not recreation


#5

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Westclock wrote:
There are very few PH’s suitable for women.

The only one that might be usable is the boldenone PH’s.

They are called bold 200 or something. There is also a winny PH, but winstrol is a somewhat poor choice for some women.

Its a very poor idea to mess with this sort of thing unless shes a figure competitor. Recreation usage is risky for women.

There are no “safe” steroids for women, even var and primo and others that we consider safe at a certain dose can have virilization effects in some women and not in others.

Depending on how they react to it a tiny dose even by female standards could cause big problems.

I’ve tried to explain this to her. She’s Hellbent on using though. I just want to guide her as best I can. There’s no stopping this crazy girl. That’s where I need help. Understood that nothing is “safe” what would be the best way to go? I’m thinking of giving her placebo and finding a strong supp to try on her. How’s that?

and yea, she has aspirations of figure then bodybuilding…its not recreation

[/quote]

Gotta be honest here Rock…at 5’5" and 150 she needs to concentrate on training and diet at this point. I assume that she is well over 20% BF at this height/weight.

At over 20% BF she will not get the results that I assume she is looking for from anabolics, and as Westclock pointed out, she is risking virilization sides that may be permanent. I do not know how particular PHs effect women so I can not comment on this.

I am not at all anti- AAS for women. That is a personal choice and the benefits vs. sides must be weighed carefully. They are not a magic bullet, she will not drop a large amount of body fat and look like a figure competitor at the end of her cycle.

Again, she really needs to get a grip on her diet and training and reassess when she gets closer to sub 16-18% IMHO. If she is that lean now then I apologize and say that she is already packing quite a bit of muscle on her and does’nt need PHs :wink:


#6

[quote]Doc L wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
Westclock wrote:
There are very few PH’s suitable for women.

The only one that might be usable is the boldenone PH’s.

They are called bold 200 or something. There is also a winny PH, but winstrol is a somewhat poor choice for some women.

Its a very poor idea to mess with this sort of thing unless shes a figure competitor. Recreation usage is risky for women.

There are no “safe” steroids for women, even var and primo and others that we consider safe at a certain dose can have virilization effects in some women and not in others.

Depending on how they react to it a tiny dose even by female standards could cause big problems.

I’ve tried to explain this to her. She’s Hellbent on using though. I just want to guide her as best I can. There’s no stopping this crazy girl. That’s where I need help. Understood that nothing is “safe” what would be the best way to go? I’m thinking of giving her placebo and finding a strong supp to try on her. How’s that?

and yea, she has aspirations of figure then bodybuilding…its not recreation

Gotta be honest here Rock…at 5’5" and 150 she needs to concentrate on training and diet at this point. I assume that she is well over 20% BF at this height/weight.

At over 20% BF she will not get the results that I assume she is looking for from anabolics, and as Westclock pointed out, she is risking virilization sides that may be permanent. I do not know how particular PHs effect women so I can not comment on this.

I am not at all anti- AAS for women. That is a personal choice and the benefits vs. sides must be weighed carefully. They are not a magic bullet, she will not drop a large amount of body fat and look like a figure competitor at the end of her cycle.

Again, she really needs to get a grip on her diet and training and reassess when she gets closer to sub 16-18% IMHO. If she is that lean now then I apologize and say that she is already packing quite a bit of muscle on her and does’nt need PHs :wink:

thanks for that

currently, she is just in off season, she gets to 125ish when her volleyball season starts and she’s got some good lbm…the cycle wouldnt be for now it would be for after volleyball since she’s transfering schools and not playing anymore. She’s don PL fo a good while

[/quote]

thanks for that

currently, she is just in off season, she gets to 125ish when her volleyball season starts and she’s got some good lbm…the cycle wouldnt be for now it would be for after volleyball since she’s transferring schools and not playing anymore. She’s don PL fo a good while

here’s a pic of her


#7

I would much rather see a woman use Anadrol (seriously) than any “prohormone.”

I rarely mention it as I don’t prefer to encourage use of androgens by women, but the common male thought that Anadrol must be horrific for women is based on their own experiences of high side effects. Medically the rate of virilization is quite low with Anadrol even at doses of 50 mg/day and above.

And 25 mg/day is quite effective for women. Very effective really. That is what Dan Duchaine had Denise Rutkowski on back in her earlier days, incidentally.

Divided doses would be preferable. Probably the best way to go would be liquid, as total dose could be even less than that per day, would be accurately measured, and would be readily divided into multiple doses per day.

(Multiple doses so as to avoid high peaks. Just to add yet another layer of caution.)


#8

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I would much rather see a woman use Anadrol (seriously) than any “prohormone.”

I rarely mention it as I don’t prefer to encourage use of androgens by women, but the common male thought that Anadrol must be horrific for women is based on their own experiences of high side effects. Medically the rate of virilization is quite low with Anadrol even at doses of 50 mg/day and above.

And 25 mg/day is quite effective for women. Very effective really. That is what Dan Duchaine had Denise Rutkowski on back in her earlier days, incidentally.

Divided doses would be preferable. Probably the best way to go would be liquid, as total dose could be even less than that per day, would be accurately measured, and would be readily divided into multiple doses per day.

(Multiple doses so as to avoid high peaks. Just to add yet another layer of caution.)[/quote]

damn, thats insightful! i’m not gonna lie i thought anadrol and sick sides when u said it.

this may be the way to go after we do some more research on it. we’re just starting to lay plans out for her so any info is good info right now


#9

I think you will find nothing in the bodybuilding steroid writings about Anadrol for women other than perhaps assumptions that it would have to be bad based on opinions of men from their usage. Dan Duchaine did tell me about how he had found it suitable for women but I don’t know if he ever wrote that up.

However there is a considerable body of medical literature on it if you want to search Pubmed. Generally it is studies of use in aplastic anemia.


#10

If you want a light oral, go for Anavar 5-15 mg per day.


#11

Anavar actually has a pretty significant virilization rate at 10 mg/day and above. Much moreso at 20 than at 10 of course, but it still happens sometimes at 10. I can’t provide numbers for the rates, but it’s certainly not rare.

As odd as it may seem, I tend to think that common opinion of how suitable for women oral anabolic steroids are derives from the standard dosage size, not that that is a good basis, and also is, if one were going to apply that at all, taken in a backwards way.

In other words, oxandrolone is thought mild… why? Well Anavar comes as only 2 mg tabs!

The actuality is that drugs such as oxandrolone and Anadrol were intended by the manufacturers for use by women as well as men, and the standard dose was chosen such that one tablet per day would be suitable.

The reason Anavar came in only 2 mg tabs was because that was what was considered safe and effective including for women.

That the amount is only 2 mg should not be taken as evidence that the substance is mild.

The reason Anadrol came in 50 mg tabs is because that was what was considered safe and effective, including for women, for that drug. Not that I am recommending going that high, but doctors, the FDA, and Syntex thought so.

But yes, 2 mg of oxandrolone is mild, for just about everyone (except perhaps for those right on the edge that likely would suffer natural hirsutism and/or husky voice sooner or later anyway.)

5 mg also counts as mild, IMO, though with slightly higher rate of problems while still low.


#12

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Anavar actually has a pretty significant virilization rate at 10 mg/day and above. Much moreso at 20 than at 10 of course, but it still happens sometimes at 10. I can’t provide numbers for the rates, but it’s certainly not rare.

As odd as it may seem, I tend to think that common opinion of how suitable for women oral anabolic steroids are derives from the standard dosage size, not that that is a good basis, and also is, if one were going to apply that at all, taken in a backwards way.

In other words, oxandrolone is thought mild… why? Well Anavar comes as only 2 mg tabs!

The actuality is that drugs such as oxandrolone and Anadrol were intended by the manufacturers for use by women as well as men, and the standard dose was chosen such that one tablet per day would be suitable.

The reason Anavar came in only 2 mg tabs was because that was what was considered safe and effective including for women.

That the amount is only 2 mg should not be taken as evidence that the substance is mild.

The reason Anadrol came in 50 mg tabs is because that was what was considered safe and effective, including for women, for that drug. Not that I am recommending going that high, but doctors, the FDA, and Syntex thought so.

But yes, 2 mg of oxandrolone is mild, for just about everyone (except perhaps for those right on the edge that likely would suffer natural hirsutism and/or husky voice sooner or later anyway.)

5 mg also counts as mild, IMO, though with slightly higher rate of problems while still low.[/quote]

Wow.

Drol dosed at 25mg/day is considered “safe” for women ??

How does this compare to say, primo ? For safety ?

I would think that 25mg/day of drol would be a kick in the pants androgen wise for a female, they would be absolutely flying.


#13

Yes, 25 mg/day of Anadrol is a lot, in terms of effect for a woman. Dan didn’t joke around with levels for competitors.

I don’t at the moment have the studies in question but yes, 50 mg/day was the minimum dose used medically for women for aplastic anemia. Best I can say on virilization rate reported was that it was roughly a few percent, which is a better rate than typical for female bb’ers following advice from their boyfriends, steroid dealers, or online information sources: that’s for sure.

I figure cut that yet in half, and then I would much rather see that done than any of the “prohormones.”

Anadrol actually was intended and tested with use by women in mind. (Not uniquely among anabolic steroids, but my contrast is to the “prohormones.”) The prohormones were not. These days generaly they are just whatever could be scraped out of the bottom of the barrel that no pharmaceutical company ever chose to market and no supplement company wanted to either, and thus escaped being listed in the ban. A woman assuming they are safer means for her of using androgens because they are over the counter is mistaken.


#14

On your Primobolan question: I don’t recall seeing serious concerns in the medical literature from use of Primobolan by women at 50 mg/day. There are of course no American studies on this, but I have read various European things quite some time ago. I don’t recall every seeing figures on virilization rate. I do also think Primobolan is a safer choice for women than the so-called prohormones.


#15

(Previous posts haven’t appeared yet)

Not sure if I was clear when I said that cutting “that” yet in half, I meant cutting Dan’s dose in half, which would make it 1/4 of the minimum medical dose. Yet still effective as an anabolic.


#16

I have seen several udner-20 female weightlifter , all with low level virilization.
The top girl had moderate water retention (4 weeks prior to national championship) and was lifting around 140kg CJ @63 kg. The others appeared to be quite lean.

The coach told me that all of them are chemically assisted, with up to 50mg of oral during precontest prep. The will get special designer PEDs if they make it to the national team. Their designer PED must be pretty good, because compared to the russians, they achieved top performance without disturbing virilisation effects. So 15mg of var is mild in that context.

It’s unfortunate that most recreational female lifters do not have access to those designer PEDs, as most are develpoed in goverment funded research facilities. All the AAS on the market now are pretty old, fine for men, but limited selection for women.

Anadrol is a very good alternative as BR pointed out. 3month minimum of treatment@ 50mg/day for anemia is a heft amount, and it passed clinical trials. Do you think any “effective” Prohormone out there can do that? If your girlfriend is considering real prohormones like Halodrol-50, which is a Turinabol precursor, she might as well take real Turinabol.

AS for those OTC desiger drugs like superdrol clones, HAVOC/Epistane, they are quite androgenic, and definitely not recommened for women. Those OTC compound are not designed for performane enhancement, they are designed to be legal and profitable.