T Nation

Programming Question for Rowing

I though I might post this question here since a lot of experience posters wander through here.

Currently I am rowing for an amateur club but they do not have a weight traning session built into the program, which runs like so

Sat - Row (90mins)
Sun - Row (90mins)
Mon - Circuits (I can’t make this)
Tues- Row (90mins)
Wed - Circuits
Thurs- 20mins HARD
Fri - Off

Taking Monday into consideration I added

Sat - Row (morn) + A (early afternoon)
Sun - Row +
Mon - B
Tues- Row
Wed - 40min run (morn) + Circuits
Thurs- C(morn) + 20mins HARD (eve)
Fri - Off

A

Powerclean 4x6
Squat 5x5
Bench 3x8
Bent row 3x8-12
Inclined hypers with a 20kg weight for reps x3

B

Highpull 4x6
Front Squat 5x5
Military Press 3x8
Deadlift 3x8-12
Rope Cable row 120kg for reps x3

C

Vertical Jumps 8x3
Bulgarian Split Squat 3x8-10
Pull Through 3x10-12
Spreadeagle situps with qeight 4x10-15

Any thoughts?

I think this really depends on what your goals are?

Are you training with weights to be a better rower or are you training with weights for a particular goal (increased strength or size) and the rowing is just for enjoyment or fitness work?

Basically which is your priority? the weights or the rowing?

Rowing as you know eats ALOT of cals, as the training for it includes long endurance sessions as well as HIIT. So if you want to get bigger, rowing will make it harder overall.

I rowed at uni and was already lifting weights, so I tried to do exactly what you are and combine them. It was challenging and although the weights helped my rowing and I did get stronger, I did not put on much size until I stopped rowing eventhough I had been eating loads!

Anyway I don’t know if you have read much about weights routines specific to rowing, but there are some interesting articles here by top rowing coaches. They talk about periodisation and fitting in different types of sessions. Worth a read even if you don’t follow them:

Yeah I have read the concept 2 manual back to back. And I have tried to incoporate something of the methodologies outlined there and in other programs I have done (although not 8-6-4).

It is normal for there to be a two split full body workout in a rowing program, although sometimes it is more extensive, but I am time limited. However the dynamic day is my “addition” to the genre, which I have been having doubts on and could be subbed for a UT2 circuit.

The top program is what it is at the moment. I am apologise for being a dullard and not putting my goals.

My goals is be a better rower, so doing sports specific training for it. Unfortunately unlike football there aren’t many programs out there without a buck needing to be spent.

your plan looks alright. I reckon you could skip the 40 min run and session C. Then just divide A and B up between monday and another day.

You dont really need any extra energy work like running because of the massive metabolic smash that rowing is.

Even your rep ranges can be reduced a bit for a few reasons:

1] You wont be able to eat enough to gain size in most of your body. depending on experience your back might balloon, who knows. But other than that you could just keep those reps low and stay nice and fresh for rowing while still pushing those strength limits.

2] The lower rep ranges will likely help you keep those tendons and joint structure in adapted shape and ideally more resistant to injuries from rowing.

3] having that upper range power will make those sprint pushes count for more per stroke.

Here’s your A:

A

Powerclean 4x6
Squat 5x5
Bench 3x8
Bent row 3x8-12
Inclined hypers with a 20kg weight for reps x3

I would alter it like this:

Power clean 7x3
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x3-5
weighted supine grip chins 5x3
good mornings 4x6

Doing cleans for reps of more than 5 is really sub optimal. 3 quick ones is all you need. save anything left for another set and focus on the speed. doing six with any decent %of1RM would look like shit speed wise.

bench you can have a bit more fun and look for a heavy set of 5 or a strong set of 3. Too much time under tension will create muscular fatigue that might fuck with your row training.

As for your bent rows id say you get enough horizontal pulling. you might be better spent getting some heavy low rep vert pulling in early in the week.

Working on the incline hyper with more than one leg is fairly suboptimal. For glute/ham work you are likely better off doing a higher weight less reps good morning. The high reps will only fatigue you for training. The low reps will keep your aerobic/glycolysis energy pathways ready to go.

As for your B:

B

Highpull 4x6
Front Squat 5x5
Military Press 3x8
Deadlift 3x8-12
Rope Cable row 120kg for reps x3

I would say:

Highpull 6x3 [go for speed]
Front Sq 5x5
DB mil press 3x8 [save your shoulders a bit]
Snatch grip DL 8x3[getting that different grip might help once in a while]
Rope cable row 5x5

I still dont think the high rep work will best benefit your rowing esp with all the circuits you’re doing.

Good luck sir. Hit and pull or whatever they say in rowing.

-chris

Having done B today I completely agree on the 6x3 thing, as by the 5/6 rep of the high pull (which are snatch grip since it mimicks the start of the drive of the sculling stroke) there really is no speed anymore.

I am going to take your new A and B with thanks. Rope cable row is now pointless as the rope has been taken away, would you suggest neutral or wrists pointing down (more rowing specific? I take it the chins are with my palms/wrist facing away, ie working the lats more than the bi’s.

The run I will shorten to 30 minutes and give it a lower intensity. Although your face has probably made a nice dent your desk. I enjoy those early morning runs as it sets me up for the rest of the day in terms of concentration.

I will dump C and add in some low intensity iso-core work instead, planks etc, with stretching.

Kind Regards

hey mate, i row too for uni. anyways we have 2 weight sessions per week and my schedeule looks like yours very much. the weights sessions are A and B also looks like this:

A:
back squats 4X6
cleans and presses 4X8
CS BB rows 4X8
stiff deads/good mornings 4X6

B:
1legged squats 4X8
incline presses 4X8
high pulls 4X6
db lunges 4X8

for circuits we do either the rower’s combo or bodyweight circuits integrated with 500m on the erg.

[quote]dyskee wrote:

bodyweight circuits integrated with 500m on the erg.
[/quote]

Killer, ever tried doing a bear followed by an interval erg and a UT1 run?

[quote]echelon101 wrote:
Having done B today I completely agree on the 6x3 thing, as by the 5/6 rep of the high pull (which are snatch grip since it mimicks the start of the drive of the sculling stroke) there really is no speed anymore.

I am going to take your new A and B with thanks. Rope cable row is now pointless as the rope has been taken away, would you suggest neutral or wrists pointing down (more rowing specific? I take it the chins are with my palms/wrist facing away, ie working the lats more than the bi’s.

The run I will shorten to 30 minutes and give it a lower intensity. Although your face has probably made a nice dent your desk. I enjoy those early morning runs as it sets me up for the rest of the day in terms of concentration.

I will dump C and add in some low intensity iso-core work instead, planks etc, with stretching.

Kind Regards
[/quote]

Hope it works out. If I had to program from scratch I wouldn’t have you doing anything above 3 reps and I think you could easily pair/alternate a few of the lifts to get you in and out faster, allowing for more recovery work.

As for the horizontal rows I’d say try a supine grip [palms up] with a 2 part pull. First part: retract the scapula [pull the shoulder blades back/together pause for 1s and then continue the pull. pause again for 1s at the end of the pull then release the pull, pausing for 1s just before you let the scapula extend. this type of supine pull really helps me keep my posture strong in O-lift pulls. I’d do reps of 3-5 staying mad heavy.

-chris

how do u post a topic?

[quote]echelon101 wrote:
dyskee wrote:

bodyweight circuits integrated with 500m on the erg.

Killer, ever tried doing a bear followed by an interval erg and a UT1 run?
[/quote]

we did it without the run , it’s a real bitch. try the rower’s combo it’s a bitch to if you want it pm and i’ll send it to you i can send you the circuits we do too if you want. other days we might do the bear and go for a 9k run .

dude, how do you post a topic? can someone help me?

[quote]Avocado wrote:

Hope it works out. If I had to program from scratch I wouldn’t have you doing anything above 3 reps and I think you could easily pair/alternate a few of the lifts to get you in and out faster, allowing for more recovery work.
[/quote]

Would that be akin to the 7x3 at ~70% rather than say 3x3 of 90+%? I hope so as I’ll be damned if I would be able to row with power/endurance if my CNS is going to get wrecked. By all means rip it up.

I have been thicking about whether sumo deadlifts, posterior chain work, or uni-lateral movements, such as split squats and lunges, would aid.

Also I know it’s been mentioned in the awesome “Time for Change” thread but what about adding in one 15-min EDT. Contreversial I know, but the 2k season is starting where it’s maximal effort for <7 mins

Just did A

Power clean 7x3
-The new set/rep scheme worked really well, much more speed. I took about a 30-40s rest.

Squat 5x5
-Same as before nice and solid

Bench 5x3-5
-Hit some nice numbers, started to feel a bit burnt out, also time was getting on

weighted supine grip chins 5x3
good mornings 4x6

I went pretty heavy and focus on the scapula retraction. I had to superset the good mornings with the rows as the racks were taken.

All in all a good workout. Unfortunately I am coming to the end of the “preparatory” cycle so will have to switch to a more power based workout. However this is definately going to be stashed for future use. I will do B on Wednesday.