T Nation

Program While on Havoc Cycle

Background: I was a properlittle fatty always strong but fuckin unfit, anyway I decide 2 do soming now I know 2 be stupid and when on a protien only diet and lost 5 stone but I really don’t want 2 think about the fat 2 muscle percentage, and I kinda became obsessed with the science and training side of things and thanks 2 my Iphone I have read alot of articles and I like 2 think I know my stuff but I will be the first 2 say I don’t know everything so I’m open 2 advice and that’s why I’m here so I can’t decide about which havoc cycle 2 use:

Day 1 20mg
Week 1 30 or 40
Week 2 40 if not too bad sides
Week 3 40
Week 4 40
Week 6 40

Bassically Im think from a few peoples advice bassically the steroid nurse who said don’t waste you’re first cycle because it will be the most effecive 1 you will have. And I saw I a forum that it only really kicks in after the 3rd week so u want 2 not only have it working optimumly for only a week

Another idea would be:

1st day 20mg
1week 30-40
2wk 40
3wk 40
4wk 40
5wk 30
6wk 20
7wk 10

For pct on both would be usual sorta thing anti e, t-booster, liver stuff but my question is do you really need 2 spend as much money on your pct or are people just overly caustion? I have never used a proper steroid/ph before only m 1 d and that by the work a little bit but tucking way 2 expensive for what it is so never buy that buy the way.

Because I don’t know much can any1 that knows there shit comment on my workout?

Monday

Chest, triceps
Dips 10-12 x 4 sets
Chest press 15 reps
8-10x 3 sets
Incline DB press 15reps
8-10x4sets
Press ups 10-15 reps x 4 sets
Incline flys 8-10 x 4 sets

Db extentions 10 x 3
Close grip benchpress 10 x 3
Pull downs 10 x 3
Pull downs diferent grip 10 x 3

Tuesday

Back/ biceps
Close grip pull up to failure x 4 sets
Lat pull down 15 reps
8-10 reps x 4 sets
Medium grip pull up 8-10 x 4 sets
1 arm cable row 10 x 4 sets
Wide grip pull up 10 x 4 sets

Triset no break basically mechanical dropsets

Hammer curls 8reps
1 arm db curls 5reps alternate
Reverse grip preacher curls 5 reps
3 sets of this

Widegrip bb curls 8-10 x 3 sets
Closegrip bb curls 8-10 x 3 sets
Incline seated curls 8-10 x 3
Concentration curls 8reps x 3

Wednesday

Shoulders abs

Arnold press 15 reps
8-10x 3
Upright row 8-10 x 4
Shoulder press 8-10x4
Delta flys 8-10 x 4
Lat raises 8-10 x 4
Front raises 8-10 x 4
Shrugs 20x 4

Hanging leg raises 15x4
Crunchs 25x 5

Thursday chest

Friday back

Saturday shoulders

O yea if ure gona add in coments bout the lack of legs my legs are strong and I can leg press half a ton for 8 but because I haven’t done legs for a while it takes ages 2 recover so i do them when i have recovered but this is what I do when I do it:

Leg press 20reps
8-10 x 3
Extentions 8-10x 4
Curls 8-10 x 4
Lunges 8-10 x 4
Calf rasies 20x 4

I know there arnt any squats but my gym isn’t that great so I make do saying that I work so hard on leg days that I fall over after every set on lunges can u give me feed back on my leg days because legs are one of my areas that I don’t know 2 much on.

If any1 has a workout that worked particually well for you can u tells because I love trying out new things and changing up routine many thanks

sigh

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
sigh[/quote]

Haha have I got it that wrong

This is an internet forum, not a text message, you clown.

You are allowed to use punctuation. You are also allowed to type words out fully.

A few things…

You talk a little bit about your background as a fatty but I don’t think you mentioned your age or how many years you’ve been lifting. Most of us would advise working like a mother#$ in the gym for a number of years before heading down the assisted path.

Yes, the “steroid nurse”, aka Prisoner, said not to waste your first cycle. Ideally that means that you should run Test on your first cycle.

Epi is fine, but going 6-7 weeks is on the long side. MANY people have problems with oral cycles of this length. Granted some people will come out of a longer cycle ok, but that hardly means everybody will, everytime. Remember, just because it’s something that you can legally purchase does not mean that it’s inherently safe. It will mess with your liver. It can give you gyno (I know, it has been marketed for it’s “anti-gyno” effects, but that wasn’t at high doses, and it has been way over-hyped in this respect anyway)

“Liver stuff” isn’t something limited to PCT; it is something that you should run throughout the entire cycle. In fact, pre-loading liver supps is a good idea. Liv-52 or sources of milk thistle, NAC etc… are advisable.

The most important part of PCT is the SERM (torem, tamox, clomid). Avoid the temptation of going with a commercial aromatase inhibitor and get yourself a real SERM. I gather that they can be a little harder to obtain in the UK; here in the US they can be obtained quasi-legitimately for research purposes.

Wrt your legs: don’t neglect them. If you can’t do squats you can incorporate more unilateral work into your routine. You’ve got regular lunges listed already; you might also try DB Bulgarian squats, DB step-ups, reverse lunges to name a few.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
This is an internet forum, not a text message, you clown.

You are allowed to use punctuation. You are also allowed to type words out fully. [/quote]

Yea I understand what you’re saying and I will make a special effort just for you, but u fucking try and write all of that on a fucking Iphone, maby if I were on a computer then I would of but I wasn’t so I couldn’t.

O yea and if anyone else wants 2 have a go at me about peitte things or anything that won’t help me pm me instead or go fuck a cat. But if anyone atually has some words of advice I will listen.

…and if you’re a fatty shouldn’t you cut first and THEN bulk?..just saying.

I think you’re better off getting your diet sorted out…then when you’re leaner consider running havoc…

BC

Also you clearly need to read. Dude seriously you’re messing with Pro steroids when clearly you haven’t done enough research. My advice if you’re going tp run it anyway is to read the PH sticky.

For your own good. Read some more before posting. Also, please, PLEASE typing using an IPhone is no excuse for not revising what you have written. If you want help at least type in proper English.

BC

Yea thanks alot for that post, i’ve been lifting for 3 years well I say 3 years but during the first 2 I had programs and I it sorta gave a base to weight training, bassically technique and things like that and genral experince, but I was lazy and missed setions awfull deit, but for the last year it’s been “real” training, I gained a fair bit of muscle over thouse 2 year but I don’t have much 2 show for it after the diet I went on.

Yea bout my legs I went through a phase where I was like well I can max out all the leg weights in the gym and the big so I don’t need to train them. Fucking stupid I know, so know I’m trying to train them up to get recovery times from not being able 2 walk for a week to somthing that I can atually train them regually.

Can u tell me a bit about SERM because I herdBits bout it but I just I don’t really know much bout it.

I know prisoner ment test but I know it’s fucking pussey but I have a huge phobea of needles so that ain’t gona happen for me does anyone know bout turnabol because
A mates going 2 Mexico and asuming it’s cheaper there then on the web I can get him 2 bring some back.

hey sorry about spelling and just general typing I’ll check my stuff before posting I know I can write some random shit with this Iphone I get enough texts back from my gf saying simple what the fuck did that say. So my bad. O and I can’t spell for shit so yea, i’ll do my best.

About my knoledge or ph trust me I’ve read most of the shit on the web, and I know a lot more about it than my first post sorta let on, but thanks for you’re consern, you probablly see lots of people with no idea, so far enough on that coment, I have done my homework.

Agh shit thought I checked it properly obviously not well enough, i’m really sorry as soon as I get my pc fixed I will use that.

[quote]harrytipper1215 wrote:
hey sorry about spelling and just general typing I’ll check my stuff before posting I know I can write some random shit with this Iphone I get enough texts back from my gf saying simple what the fuck did that say. So my bad. O and I can’t spell for shit so yea, i’ll do my best.

About my knoledge or ph trust me I’ve read most of the shit on the web, and I know a lot more about it than my first post sorta let on, but thanks for you’re consern, you probablly see lots of people with no idea, so far enough on that coment, I have done my homework. [/quote]

iPhone has a spell check, use it. No one is asking you to know how to spell, they are asking you to spell correctly.

There is a SERM sticky, read it.

Also, read every page of the Pro Hormone sticky.

Yea I know a iPhone has spell check and it also writes things that you don’t want it to write and uses the wrong words, u won’t really understand unless u have 1, but maby I’m just being a retard, i’ll do my best.
thanks for pointing out the stickys I didn’t see them.

Ok I already knew what nova did and clomid and oxo6 and stuff and new I had to use them, before you think I’m a tit because I didn’t know what serm was imparicular. thanks I read it and know and under stand the groups of estrogen control kl that’s why I opened the thread because I don’t know everything.

O and about surgesting I should cut first, I have I lost 5 stone that’s why I’m bulking, but to be honest I probablly could do with loosing half a stone 2 get in to single diget bf percentage; is havoc any good for cutting?

Does anyone have any opinions on pusling havoc?

What would you recomened for the PCT? Because H’ve read a few things saying that you wouldn’t need one, but I’m not to sure about that.

Also have you read about or pusled havoc before if so can u tell me what happened and if it worked.

I think we weren’t clear enough:

  1. READ the PH sticky.
    2 READ the SERM sticky

Hint: There’s a laid out Havoc cycle in the PH sticky with PCT and all. Come on man, make an effort. I’m busy with my stuff right now all you gotta do is read.

BC

I dont think that any guy who says “O yea if ure gona add in coments bout the lack of legs my legs are strong …” is clearly not ready for any kinda cycle.

What he need to do is stop training like a wimp and then after some time, when he finds out about his body and way it reacts to certain stuff, think about using some other means of braking his genetic limitations.

that’s just my thoughts. :confused:

Alright first things, I fucking love you avatar Bicep, I’ve just got my laptop back and I didn’t realize it moved.

Now lets get this streight I have read the SERM sticky and the PH sticky, I have been researching PH’s and steroids for the last 3 months and nothing has come new to me form thouse stickys. Exept that I didn’t Know that Nova and Clomid came under SERM.

I also “know” how to cycle havoc. But considering that I have never atually used it and i wasn’t thinking of using the standard cycle i was asking feedback for people with experience.

But im thinking that I may pusle cycle it now, to minimize sides, and test shutdown, and i was wondering if its worth it to pusle it, and some advice on the cycle its self.

Ive read Dr D’s recomendation about 2 weeks on pusling and 2 weeks of then another 2weeks on. But I was wondering if i could just simply pusle every week till the end of the bottle.

Yea and HvRv you miss read me, maby it was my fault for not making it clear enough.

Bassically, I have strong legs, ok but they recover slowly so I do leg days as soon as they recover, that is why i left them out of the workout plan I showed in my first post.

O and mate don’t for a second think i train like a wimp. After leg days I have to fucking crawl out of the gym, I fall over after every set of lundges, I know were your coming from, because I fucking hate people that go in to the gym half heartedly, especially when they fucking sit of the machines that i need 2 use and do pussey weights and have a 10 min rest between the 2 sets they do.

And I know what exersize and set and rep range works for me, so don’t think im just some prick that thinks its a “magic pill”.

PS that protein pandcake resipe from the latest article “Stuff you should be doing but arn’t” is the shit. Hes soo right bout my gym sadly.

"My suggestion is (copies from my post in the PH sticky):

4 weeks Havoc

Wk 1 - 10 10 20 20 30 30 30
Wk 2 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 3 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 4 - 40 40 40 40 40 40 40

Then 40/40/20 of Nolvadex/Tamoxifen

and get enough Cycle Support & Liv52 for the 4 week cycle + 3 week PCT. If you can I’d go as far as saying keep the Cycle Support & Liv52 going for one more week past the PCT."

…and I’m quoting Makavali…

just grab 1 bottle of Havoc, some nolva and some Milk thistle and you’re good to go. Experienced or not you gonna run it anyway by the sounds of it.

Good luck.